Mike Morse:

I ask five or six very basic questions and 90% of the time they have no idea. That tells me they don’t know their numbers, right?

Chris Dreyer:

Understanding your numbers means more success, more money, and more time to focus on the things you love.

Mike Morse:

It’s really being purposeful and thoughtful with the growth. I can’t stress that enough. If you’re going to sign up an extra 50 cases a month, how many more employees do you need? How much more money should you spend to get those cases?

Chris Dreyer:

Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I’m your host Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the preeminent personal injury marketing agency. Before we get started, if you like what you hear, head on over to Apple or Spotify and pound that five-star review button. And if you don’t like what you hear, tell me about it in a one-star review. I got a big hug for all my haters, too. Each week we talk to the best in the legal industry. Ready to dominate your market? Let’s go.
Leads drive business, that’s not a secret, and we love to see a steady stream of clients. But if the management piece in a firm isn’t dialed in, that stream becomes a flood, one the business can drown in. Mike Morse is all about knowing when to turn the spigot of clients up and down. Author of the infamous book, Fireproof, Mike shows us how to find the sweet spot and grow a thriving business with intention. Mike Morse Law Firm is a name that resonates in Michigan. He has grown 150-plus employees, served 25,000 clients, and has collected more than $1 billion in fees since 1995. Through Fireproof Performance, he has helped attorneys implement business operating systems catered to the unique needs of law firms. Today, we tap into his wealth of knowledge. Here’s Mike Morris, owner at Fireproof Performance.

Mike Morse:

There’s a million ways to go. For the first several years, we didn’t have goals. We were trying to maintain because we had a lot of people, we were getting a lot of cases, we were bringing in a lot of money. And then recently we did decide to make a conscious decision to sign up more cases, to grow our production, to grow our revenue. I think that you have to have a plan. You have to have goals. You should not just say, “Sign as many as you can and our team can handle it.” That’s a major problem people are having. John Nachazel and I just gave our keynote on that in Miami during NTL. It was a pretty cutting edge talk. We’ve gotten lots of feedback.
I’ve been asked to go on lots of shows to talk more about it, but it was the accountability piece and about our spigot piece, but it’s really being purposeful and thoughtful with the growth. I can’t stress that enough. If you’re going to sign up an extra 50 cases a month, how many more employees do you need? How much more money should you spend to get those cases? Things like that. You and your leadership team need to sit down and have a full-blown plan in place and don’t be like 97% of the other firms to just say, “Sign up everything you can get. Shove it down the throat of our employees and it’ll all be fine.”

Chris Dreyer:

Wow. Fantastic. Out the gate, immediately, one of my questions I was going to ask is a number that’s being tracked more. First of all, two sides of this. Do you look at a number like revenue per employee in terms of profitability? Is that a number that you’re tracking for? And then how do you forecast utilization and these hiring needs? Because I imagine working with John in this jumbotron, you’ve got your CPLs, your CPAs, and all this, “Hey, you pumped this money in, you’re going to get this output.” What goes into that?

Mike Morse:

I know to the penny how many lawyers I have per revenue dollars, how many other employees I have per revenue dollars, total employee divided by revenue dollars. Those are simple calculations. If you bring in $50 million in fees and you have a hundred employees, you do the division, you do the math, and you track that over time. We’ve been tracking that for 15 years, so we know exactly how many employees are averages. If you see it spike either way, you know you have a problem. But if I want to jump to 60 million, 70 million, I know how many employees I’m going to need just by doing those simple calculations.
You asked about forecasting models. As you know, John Nachazel is the master at forecasting models in this country. We’ve never come across another firm in all of our coaching and all of the law firm hoods that we’ve opened. We’ve never seen a firm do it accurately. John, over the last 14 years, has been within 1% of his forecast models for our law firm, as well as the Fireproof firms that he coaches. He’s doing it for probably 20 or 25 firms and it’s accurate every year.
Again, for those of you who haven’t heard this part of the talk, I know exactly, almost to the penny, how much my firm’s going to do at the end of this year, how much personal money I’m going to bring home at the end of the year. I have no fear, I have no concerns. I’m able to make fast, easy, good decisions when I need to without worrying about the bottom line, without worrying that it’s going to hurt my bottom line, hurt the firm, hurt our employees, because of the forecasting model. So, you need to surround yourself with good coaches, good CFOs, good CPAs, good people with numbers, data scientists, whatever you have to do to look at your past numbers, look at your averages, look at your average case size, do the math, and know how many cases are going to settle in 2023.
There’s not a single firm out there who can’t do this. In our opinion, it’s imperative for growth. It’s imperative just to run a good firm. I don’t care if you’re happy with the money you make, it’s imperative to have that if you’re on track, off track, and how to plan for a really good year.

Chris Dreyer:

The interesting thing is a lot of times when we go in and we set these one, three, and five-year goals or 10, you can go a bit longer… A lot of times it’s like you go in and everyone’s fired up, “We’re going to do 10 million or 20 million,” but it’s more opinions versus like, “Hey, here’s the data, here’s the realistic targets, here’s the stretch goals.” I’d say that took me a long time to learn, too. It took me nine years of business before I really started to understand that.

Mike Morse:

I wouldn’t call it opinions. I would call it pure [inaudible 00:06:41] guesswork. John calls it just pulling the numbers out of their asses and we see that all the time. Here’s a cute story, Chris. I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this. The year before John started with my firm in 2008, I believe, in 2007 was our first year working with Gino Wickman as our coach. He told us to do projections and what do you think you’re going to do in 2008. We looked at 2007, and the beginning of 2008, we pulled out a number. I don’t even remember what the number was, 5 million, 10 million. And we’re like, “Okay, so maybe we’ll do 5% better than last year.,” and we were millions of dollars off.
John came in and figured out the formulas and figured out the play. We just looked at this recently actually. He’s been within 1% for the last 12, 13 years. He was down 4% on COVID year for obvious reasons, but other than that, he’s been right on. I mean, yes, he’s a genius, but it’s not… You could figure this out with the right people and I highly recommend it. It changes, in our opinion, everything.

Chris Dreyer:

Know with a lot of executive staff, you’ve got… A lot of times, it isn’t just fixed salary. There’s like performance incentives and they have these variables. How does that factor into? Because as a business owner, the compounding of just increasing their salary X percentage, it’s just unsustainable and you have to tie it to the business.

Mike Morse:

It’s all part of the equation. I mean, we’re looking at revenue and we’re looking at costs and expenses per employee. We know if we’re on trend to sign up an extra a hundred cases a month, John and my team of 10 leaders know how many secretaries, paralegals, intake people, lawyers, we need to handle the growth. We do that before we get the cases. Now, we have a massive influx. No business owner wants to turn down cases. We are lecturing and teaching our clients that you may have to. If you don’t have the factory, the video that… I don’t know if you remember the I Love Lucy video when they’re doing the chocolates and the production line coming down and the production line speeds up and they all start falling off and they keep eating the chocolates and putting it in their hat.
I see that at law firms all the time because what law firm owners, podcasters, coaches, fake coaches, mastermind fake coaches want to talk about… All they want to talk about is what? Bringing in the cases leads. They don’t want to talk about what you and I are talking about and what we talk about in the book, Fireproof. They don’t want to talk about management. They don’t want to talk about turning down the spigot and taking less cases. They don’t want to talk about forecasting. I get calls all the time and I say, “Oh, great. So tell me about your firm. What’s your average fee? What’s your goal for this week? How many did you sign up last week?” I asked five or six very basic questions, and 90% of the time they have no idea. That tells me they don’t know their numbers. And I don’t know how you run a law firm these days without knowing your numbers.
You can and you could be successful, but you could be more successful, make more money, have more time, focus on the things that you love to do and are great at if you have a really good jumbotron in place, really good goal set. With all that, Chris, comes knowing how you can pay people, how much you should pay people, can pay people to stay profitable. That’s the number one thing. We’re running businesses to be profitable. Of course we want to help people, that’s why we went into this business. Put that aside. That’s a given. We don’t need to ever say that again. Of course we’re in this business to help people, but what’s next important is to be profitable because we’re not charities. I don’t know one law firm that’s a non-profit. These are for-profit businesses. Why are they not running them for-profit businesses? Why are they running them like sell as many widgets as you can, Sign up as many cases as you can, and let my staff deal with it.
Well, we are finding disasters when they do that. We’re finding low morale, turnover, stress burnouts, lots of one-star reviews, low case values, firms that aren’t able to litigate cases and just settle cases, which any fourth grader can basically do. You know what I’m saying? It’s just not smart. And when we get in there and we fix them, their profits go up 20%, 30%/ They’re able to handle more cases, they have less stress, their employees are happier. They’re on the best place to work list soon after they understand all of these things that we’re talking about. It’s frustrating to me to see firms that just have their head buried in the sand and just want to sign up cases and not worry about any of this other stuff.

Chris Dreyer:

I couldn’t agree more. Those CPLs, CPAs, the ACVs that cost per lead, cost per acquisition, average client value, those are givens. You have to have those. How do you even do marketing without those numbers? I have no idea. I just read literally yesterday… I finished at Dan Kennedy’s book on No B.S. It’s No B.S. profit and people management. He was talking about a business’s sole purpose is for profit, an employee’s sole purpose is for profit or convenience, and it makes you reevaluate your team, what everyone’s doing here. When you see these issues with growth and you have these bottleneck issues with the spigot, what are some of the common issues with the bottlenecks that you see with them not getting across to the finish?

Mike Morse:

Well, to put it simply, I see that they are not carrying and figuring out what their employees can handle. That’s the simple answer, Chris. They don’t get it. They don’t know what the capacity is of their teams. Again, they go back to the mindset of sign, sign, sign, and we’ll figure it out. Listen, I have 100% been guilty of that, but we have learned. John and I had an epiphany in the last couple months that the best run firms, the fireproof firms, our firm, with the right processes, the right leadership team, the right jumbotrons in place still struggle from time to time. We pinpointed that the struggle comes from capacity issues.
I had a call this morning. I had a lawyer call me and say, “Michael, I can’t get my people to do what I ask. I have all the best plans, the best goals, the best jumbotrons, and my team won’t follow the process book.” And I said, “Okay, well…” We also know not every team, not every lawyer, not every paralegal, not every secretary are created equal. That’s a very big notion to keep in mind.
Mary Lou, great lawyer, how many files can she really handle? What is her sweet spot? Is it 60 litigation files, 70, 80, 100? What we find time and time again, Chris, is that they have 120 or 130 or they have a mediocre secretary or they lost their second in command lawyer. When you really take a deep dive that allegedly nobody has time to do… But if you take a deep dive and you compare team to team to team in your building and you compare… If you have one team, you can look at them, what can they really handle? It’s an individual firm thing that every team is created differently, but you need to have a conversation with them and find out. I think it’s going to be less than they have and less than we hope and less than we think.
The bottom line is this: if the number is 60, don’t give them more. If you agree on that number with that team… Now, we have 15 teams and each team has lots of people on it. We talk to these teams and we sit and we look at their historical numbers, what they have on the hopper now, how they’re doing, and we come up with a number. Every team is different usually between 60 and 120 litigation files. That’s frustrating for most people that there’s not a… I get asked all the time, “How many law files can your lawyers handle?” I’m sure you’ve heard that. I can’t answer that question. You can answer that question.
Anyway, once you know that number and they agree to that number, the one thing they can’t say to you anymore, Chris, as a law firm owner, is “I was too busy to get to it because they agreed that they could get to it.” It eliminates the micromanaging, the hounding, the excuses, and we have found that this works. We have a spigot chart. Just picture what happens to a faucet when there’s too much water coming through it? It shoots everywhere. That’s most of the law firms in this country who have too much work or give too much work to their people. A spigot, you know what a spigot is, a knob. You could turn it up, you could turn it down.
You have to find this sweet spot for each person in your firm. If you don’t pay attention to it, my guess is that they have too much work. That’s why they’re not doing what they’re asked to do. That’s why they’re not following the processes. It’s not a sexy answer, nobody wants to hear that, nobody wants to talk about it. I don’t believe anybody is talking about it except for John and I who are raising some concerns and alarm bells. We’re sounding some alarm bells that you need to look at your teams, you need to take better care of your teams, your teams have too much work. Again, I’m not trying to say I’m immune from this. I have teams here with too much work and we are trying to fix it. We are trying to hire fast without making mistakes.
We have turned on the spigot on intake and we send out 250 files a week to other local firms, national firms who can help us. We have made relationships with litigation firms that if we can’t handle the load, we may have to start offloading some of that. We haven’t done that yet, but it’s absolutely on the table. We’re basically in a war here and we are looking for how to take care of our soldiers and win the game and win the war at the end of the game. All of these tools are at our fingertips and we are being proactive. Most law firms out there are reactive. We are trying to be proactive with managing the spigot, managing our teams, because nobody wants to hear, “I didn’t do it. I didn’t get it.” They’ll make excuses, but the real reason is they have too much work.

Chris Dreyer:

The personal injury market is exceptionally competitive. You know it. I know it. Firms without a plan constantly battle to get to the top. They jockey for a position, but the game changes when you go to fireproof and stick to the system.

Mike Morse:

I am a conscious active participant in my firm. I know what’s going on, I know my numbers to the penny, I know the case counts to the penny, I know how many firm, how many cases are coming in, how many are going out, how many were settling each week, average, everything. It takes me about an hour to an hour and a half a week in my leadership meetings to review those numbers. Every week, I look at them once a week to know where the problems are and it’s not that hard. I’ll get up on every soapbox, I’ll come on every podcast, and get on every stage and say it until people start doing it. They’re going to be happier for it. I know firsthand because I see our fireproof clients happier. I meet with them, they’re happier. They understand their numbers and they’re learning how to become ingrained in their communities.

Chris Dreyer:

I couldn’t agree more. You know your numbers and then branding. It’s not just a, “Hey, come in,” and it’s going to work in three months, right? It’s going to take time. You got to get that reputation. Also, just controlling the channels for the distribution, whether it’s radio or TV and those best spots. I could definitely see you being insulated and knowing your numbers and all those factors. One of the things that I just wanted to pick your brain on is we have a attraction coach that we meet with that chairs our meetings. Would you say that Fireproof Performance that you not only get a chairman but you get a mentor? Because I think that’s a big differentiator than all the other traction companies out there or that follow a similar operating frameworks because you’re in the legal space that you have this data.

Mike Morse:

Chris, that’s a very intuitive question. Nobody’s ever asked me that. I’m never going to say a bad thing about EOS. Gino Wickman is a dear friend, my mentor, wrote the forward to my book. I meet with him quarterly for the last 15 years. I’m meeting with him next month. EOS got me to where I’m at. Period.
I did believe that there was a need for more than just EOS. EOS, you need to be self-motivated, you need to be a self-starter, and you need to go to your quarterly meeting, do your work for 90 days, and go back to your quarterly meeting. That is all EOS offers and it’s genius.
What we offer at Fireproof is different. We are not competing with EOS. Several of our clients have EOS coaches and we come in and do different things. We are lawyers. Our coaches have worked at law firms for 15 to 20 years. I guess we do mentor them. We offer at a very, very low price, two live teachings a month, what we call our community calls, where our Fireproof members gather and their hot topics. If they miss it, hey get it sent to them. All the past ones are on the Fireproof website for members only. We have 14 long form videos with multiple sub-parts that John and I shot over a long period of time that the whole firm could watch. They could send to their secretaries and lawyers and work at. We have office hour calls. We have twice a year in-person meetings. We have one coming up in April here in Detroit, and then we’re going to meet again in Phoenix in November.
Look, if they are loud enough and they get to know us well enough, yeah, we’re mentoring them more often than that. They’re growing and thriving. There’s criminal lawyers now and immigration lawyers and divorce lawyers, a lot of personal injury lawyers, and they are… Gino Wickman told me 15 years ago, I’ll never forget this. He said, “You’re my first law firm. I don’t know the first thing about law firms.” The funny thing, Chris, if you interviewed him next and said, “Michael, we do auto accidents. First party. Third party. Gino, what’s the difference between a first party and third party accident?” He’ll have no idea. EOS coaches don’t really… I don’t want to know if the word care is right, but it doesn’t matter to what your business is.
If you look at an EOS coach’s docket, they have 20 different types of businesses. They have an SEO company, they have a law firm, they have a dentist’s office, they have a construction company, et cetera. They are not subject matter expertise in anything, except how to run a great business. Again, it’s genius. Fireproof is a complementary book to Traction. If you’re a lawyer or in that, you should read them together. It’s a real world use guide after using EOS for 13, 14 years.
I believe the Fireproof Performance model is helping firms. We’re adding firms every single week. We have dozens and dozens of firms. They’re all on the calls, they’re referring cases back and forth, they’re asking question questions back and forth, they’re getting to see each other live. We had a big dinner in Miami in January altogether. Plus, in November we were in Scottsdale. I mean, it’s so fun. Again, to remind your people, I donate all the money to charity and we buy more backpacks. We’re now in seven states. We have law firms in seven states doing our backpack program.
It’s for love right now. It’s for the love of coaching and teaching and making lawyers and the profession better, because it’s given me so much. I love it and John loves it. Now, we have a little program where people can get help that they need. I think it starts at 2,500 bucks a month for all those things that I told you. And if they can’t afford 2,500 bucks a month, then they definitely should not be spending that money on this. They have other problems. They got to focus on other things. But if they can afford 2,500 bucks a month, fireproofperformance.com, email me at mike@855mikewins.com. I’ll get you in touch with the right people. We’re giving it all away. There’s nothing off limits, there’s nothing I wouldn’t answer for you right now, and there’s nothing I wouldn’t help one of my coaching clients with. Heck, I answer for strangers all day long anyway.

Chris Dreyer:

I got to put a stamp on it because you have the mentorship. Hey, John Nachazel knock Hazels made this scorecard and refined this jumbotron. When somebody’s starting from scratch, they’re not like scratching their head or even things like channels. We talked about the spigot, how a lot of times everyone just focuses on leads, but a lot of firms can’t get leads. Hey, here are some channels that you could look at. The other question is just 80/20. For those firms that are trying to turn on the spigot, what comes to mind in terms of business development? I know you’re really heavy in TV and Cherry Garcia type marketing and humor and great messaging. What comes to mind in turning on the spigot to get that flowing?

Mike Morse:

First, you got to come up with your right message. I haven’t met a lawyer who isn’t unique. We’re all unique in our own way. You got to find your voice, you got to find your creativity. One of my good friends out in New York’s a real boring lawyer. All of his ads are about how boring he is. It’s cute and it’s funny and it’s endearing. I think you got to find your voice, you got to find your niche, and you got to find what’s different about. I mean, we can talk about that all day.
Then depending on your budget, you got to start with social media and you got to dominate your market. There’s still a ton of space. There’s a ton of space in every market for social media doing creative things. You see videos going viral all the time. Why? Well, it’s something people want to watch. Are you standing up there and saying stuff that people don’t want to watch? Well, it’s not going to go viral. Are you doing some fun cool stuff? Then it’s going to go viral or semi-viral. Are you being consistent? Are you putting it out every day?
Heck, I’m doing pizza reviews right now because I love pizza. @855mikewins on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok, we are doing pizza reviews and it’s getting lots of views, I should say. Not reviews, but lots of views, and it’s fun. Dave Portnoy is one of my heroes and I love him. I watch every video he puts out. I think he’s hilarious. Ripped him off, but I said, “I’m ripping off Dave Portnoy and I’m doing pizza reviews, Detroit-style pizza. Please watch.” I’m not embarrassed about that. I do think that there is something about community.
There’s a lot of mastermind groups out there. There’s some coaching programs out there. I’m a big fan of a community. I go to a lot of seminars, as you know. I like our community, Fireproof community, because it’s like-minded people. We’re all following either EOS or the Fireproof model and we’re learning. There are a lot of people who are in masterminds, but they think it’s also a coaching program. Well, you and I should probably dispel that belief. It’s a mastermind and the guy running the mastermind is just getting people in a room and everybody else is sharing. It’s not coaching your best practices valuable.
But I also think there’s something to coaching, which is actually teaching methods and methodology and mentoring. Like you have said, I like the word mentoring on how to get to the next level and how to fix things. Those are not the same thing. They’re not created equal. There’s some bad coaching programs, there’s some good coaching programs, there’s some good masterminds, there’s some bad masterminds. Just know that it’s not all created equal. Find your place, find something you love, ask other lawyers, ask what’s working for them, what’s not working for them. I think there’s a real place in that community aspect.

Chris Dreyer:

I like to differentiate the coaching versus the mentor versus the community and the mastermind and working with your peers. I think that masterminds, they can be different, because everyone’s at different stages of their growth of their firm, where your guys below eight figures versus your guys above eight figures or those just getting started. It’s funny that you mentioned the social media, the pizza reviews, because I follow you on social media because you are entertaining and you’re talking about things that I’m interested in as opposed to, “What are the steps I need to take after a car accident?”

Mike Morse:

I’ve done those, too, but you got to find your mix. You got to be consistent, you got to be fun, you got to be comfortable on camera. You got to throw shit against the wall and see what sticks. I did 20 videos in a row and one of them got 2 million views and 150,000 likes and 150,000 saves and 150,000 shares. It was about teaching 15-year-olds how to pass a driver’s test because I got a kid who’s taking driver’s ed, and it resonated and it blew up. You just never know. I picked up 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 followers because of it. You just don’t know, Chris. You got to try different things.

Chris Dreyer:

What’s next for Mike Morris and where can people go to get in touch with you?

Mike Morse:

This new accountability thing that we touched on is really big, but I love working at my law firm. I love talking to my clients. We just got it yesterday. We got a $2 million verdict right here in my town. That still gets my juices flowing more than anything, but helping law firms, helping lawyers is great. I’d love to connect with your audience. 855mikewins.com is my website, @855mikewins are my social media handles. Please say hi. Please ask questions. If you want more information on Fireproof Performance, send me an email, and I’ll get you hooked up. You don’t have to be a Fireproof member. We’ll give you a free jumbotron to start getting the numbers that’s got all the calculations.
I’m speaking at a bunch of seminars coming up. We have our Fireproof members coming to Detroit in April. They’re going to tour our law firm, see our intake center, see our conference room, see our building, be in the energy of the firm, which if you ever have an opportunity to go see a law firm that you admire, go. If somebody invites you to take a tour, go. Just doing things like that, get out there, get out of your comfort zone, meet people, ask questions, find those mentors, Chris, you mentioned, and your lives are going to be better because you can’t do it alone in your office without help. I had help. I love asking people for help and it’s just the best. You need to be in a community. It doesn’t matter which community you’re in. If it’s a good community for you, you should find that community, find your people, find your tribe. Sign up, get engaged, be active in it, and I think things will happen for you.

Chris Dreyer:

Thanks so much to Mike Morris at Fireproof Performance for everything you shared today. Time for the takeaway, aka, the PIMM Points. PIMM Point number one: Traction and the entrepreneurial operating system or EOS is fantastic for building better business, but it is a broad concept. Mike created Fireproof to address the unique needs of law firm owners. Consider mentorship that is specific to your industry.

Mike Morse:

Fireproof is a complementary book to Traction. If you’re a lawyer or in that, you should read them together. It’s a real world use guide after using EOS for 13, 14 years. I believe the Fireproof performance model is helping firms.

Chris Dreyer:

PIMM Point number two: Fireproof gives you a mentor and a great connection to other channels, but the best value comes from the numbers. The guesswork gets removed. Mike’s team tells you exactly what data must be tracked and displayed on the jumbotron to reach your goals. Some of the most important numbers are cost per lead or CPL, cost per acquisition and average client value. They tell you if you should increase or decrease your marketing spend.

Mike Morse:

I know exactly almost to the penny how much my firm’s going to do at the end of this year, how much personal money I’m going to bring home at the end of the year. I have no fear, I have no concerns. I’m able to make fast, easy, good decisions when I need to without worrying about the bottom line, without worrying that it’s going to hurt my bottom line, hurt the firm, hurt our employees, because of the forecasting model. Look at your averages, look at your average case size, do the math, and know how many cases are going to settle in 2023. There’s not a single firm out there who can’t do this. It’s imperative to have that if you’re on track, off track, and how to plan for a really good year.

Chris Dreyer:

PIMM Point number three: you got to know when to turn up and down the spigot. Guys, I love this one so much because it’s all about being intentional with your growth. Make sure your firm can handle the volume we’re bringing in. Every firm focuses on leads, but you’re wasting your marketing spend if the client’s service isn’t there. When you take on more than you could chew, you can get negative reviews and your best team members can be burned out. Each team is different. Understand their limitations.

Mike Morse:

You have to find this sweet spot for each person in your firm. If you don’t pay attention to it, my guess is that they have too much work. That’s why they’re not doing what they’re asked to do. That’s why they’re not following the processes. We’re basically in a war here and we are looking for how to take care of our soldiers and win the game and win the war at the end of the game. All of these tools are at our fingertips and we are being proactive. Most law firms out there are reactive. We are trying to be proactive with managing the spigot, managing our teams, because nobody wants to hear, “I didn’t do it. I didn’t get to it.” They’ll make excuses, but the real reason is they have too much work.

Chris Dreyer:

If you made it this far, it’s time to pay the tax. No, I’m not talking about taking your cash like Big G. I’m asking you for a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. Leave me a review and I’ll forever be grateful. If this is your first episode, welcome and thanks for hanging out. Come back for fresh interviews where you can hear from those, making it rain. Catch you next time, I’m out.