Mike Budny

People want to know that you’re just like them and that you’re there to help and support them.

Chris Dreyer

Potential customers are interested in more than what services you provide. They’re going to want to know who you are as a person.

Mike Budny

You can showcase your verdicts and your wins. But to me, the reality is what really moves the needle is that people know that you’re there, that you’ll care. You’ll listen to them. And you’ve got their back and you’re gonna fight for them.

Chris Dreyer

When Mike Budny looks at the digital marketing industry, he sees a lot of templates and not a lot of personality. And so he co-founded Influex to make a change and help clients create outstanding personal websites. They do this by identifying and communicating the essence of the brands that they work with. I sat down with Mike to ask him about why personal branding is so important, how web design can maximize the impact of your copy and the key mistakes to avoid when creating a website. You’re listening to personal injury marketing mastermind, the show where elite personal injury attorneys and leading edge marketers give you exclusive access to grow strategies for your firm. Being at the forefront. Marketing is all about understanding people. So let’s get to know our guest. Here’s Mike Budny co-founder and chief influence officer at Influex.

Mike Budny

At an early age, I always felt like I wanted to be a businessman. But I didn’t actually know what that meant. Very nerdy kid pocket protector. I got glasses before I needed them. I begged my mom when I was in the second grade. I thought that was what a businessman needed.And it was just something, I don’t know where it came from between that and like wanting, being obsessive about human behavioral psychology, why people do what they do. Those two things have always been in my life and just like curiosity about human nature. So fast forward into being on campus at Purdue university. I was just deeply depressed. The moment I got there, cause it was like, oh man I never really liked school. There’s so many things that didn’t feel like you were relevant to me. I just, I didn’t think instinctively knew that to learn a craft. You must do a craft and I’m like, I’m not doing any craft right now. I’m doing nothing. Actually. I’m just sitting around. You know, biding my time. So I got obsessed. I was playing computer games. I was just obsessed and addicted to unplugging and disconnecting. And I wasn’t happy about that either. That’s part of where my depression was. A fortunate series of events and a number of things happened, I was reading a couple of books that really shifted my mindset. The power of positive thinking was one of them. ‘Think and Grow Rich’ – another classic of course. But these things planted seeds in my mind, You know, 16, 17, 18 years old, that started to gestate. And then I started asking those questions when I was on campus. And then at that point I just, I came into contact with a speaker, author, coach living out of Stockton, California, and he took a liking to me. He saw that I was hungry, ambitious, et cetera. And he was like, Hey just, you know, come mentor with me. And that to me was like, the word mentorship was like, that was what I was seeking. I was like, I want to find somebody doing or living or building businesses in a way that I can just learn and do whatever it takes to do that. And that opened up a great door. So what I did was at that point, I took out a loan, a federal loan at school. Which is like they were handing out like candy, right. And I immediately left school with that loan and that loan afforded me the opportunity to go cross country and do everything I needed to do to get started. And that was my venture into entrepreneurship and mentorship. And just, that was 18 years old.

Chris Dreyer

That’s amazing. Especially being so young, I went to college, I got a degree somehow, you know, it was what mom and dad wanted me to do, but you know, here I am as an entrepreneur as well. And it’s, you know, I applaud you because that’s tough. Right. You’ve got a lot of I’m sure your parents were giving you pushback, like, oh, is this the right decision?

Mike Budny

They were, but I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you the part of the blessing I certainly have to lean on is that I have very supportive parents and they believed in me. Even though I didn’t have a clear path for me that was etched in, you know, in the cultural sense. So yeah, that was a huge blessing for me, for sure. And they were, they, you know, that’s one of the, one of the main reasons why I’m really blessed I feel.

Chris Dreyer

Absolutely. So you’ve helped found a number of businesses, which is pretty amazing. And, you know, what drew you to the marketing side? You know, what have you learned from those experiences?

Mike Budny

Thank you. Thank you for that. Let me share a little story on that because that’s part of my story is about my struggle too, because I’ve launched a lot of different things, but I’ve also failed on a lot of them too. And they’ve in those failures have been in most, the most important things to me beyond even the successes I’ve had. So, just a little bit of background as my entrepreneurship in this case, it’s, you know, it’s fall of 2010. And I’m living in Carlsbad, California, I’m married and we’ve got our first child on the way – Cody. I’m launching my first. This is my first real entrepreneurial venture I’m watching.And every month right now is super tough financially. I mean, crazy tough. I don’t know how we’re going to pay for groceries much less, how I’m going to get enough gas in the tank to get those groceries. That kind of tough. And I’m starting really behind on things. And, you know, whenever my phone rings, I’m filled with this like deep anxiety and fear that it’s a 50:50 chance it’s a bill collector calling and I’ve simply run out of things to say then one night, you know, I hear the horn on my car, like someone’s trying to break in, you know, I own this nice jet black Mustang GT. So I looked through the people in my car. And I see a tow truck and I realized my car is being repossessed at this moment. I just lost it. I break down, I’m crying at the door. I’m crying hard. My wife, Liz has never seen me cry before. And, you know, it’s not about the car. It’s what the car was a symbol of, what it represented in my life, you know, mainly my inability to manifest abundance for my family. I was angry at myself. All I could think of was that I was a failure. So what happened next was that dark night, I came to this harsh, but honest realization about myself, that if I wanted to never put myself in my family and that situation again, I just had to go all in on my craft. And that’s where I call myself a marketer, but I wasn’t producing the result of a high first-class marketer. So that’s the realization that I had to come to and really be honest with myself. And I had to push myself even further and from that commitment came massive action and a number of windfalls and successes that, that kind of came from that, but it was really birthed from being in the shit. And you know, that, that moment really was a trigger for me. So from there on I really got serious about marketing and I got myself close to people that were exceptional at marketing that I could grow their businesses with as a partner or as a consumer. Because I knew, Hey, I did this already before in my early twenties, I mentored with somebody and I got great skills, but I didn’t go all the way with it. And now I’m at a new junction point and here’s how I want to do so I’ve gotten what I just found was if I just get close to the people that inspire me, that I feel like are doing the right thing by osmosis and by hard work, I can replicate that, embody that and rise to that level at some degree. And that’s where I feel like I’ve been able to be blessed is being, having amazing relationships. I mean, my wealth is really centered around my relationship capital. Truly. And the people that I hold near and dear in my life that have helped me get to whatever stage I’m at now. I’m not just like, I’m just getting started honestly with so much.

Chris Dreyer

It’s an amazing story and it’s just absolutely incredible because now, you know, with influence you’ve designed sites for influencers like Frank Kern, Lewis Howes, Ryan Deiss, Cameron Herold, Dan Lok, you know, my good friend, Michael mogull in the legal vertical has a really sharp website. You guys did, you know? So was that kind of this is all this action is like, Hey, I’m going to be around, you know, Frank Kern by working with him. I kind of get that osmosis. Is that kind of how this all works?

Mike Budny

You got it. You got what drew me in was like, Hey, if I can go to the top of what I call it, the big fish in a small. Right. It’s those at the top, that own that, or the the Kings or Queens of their particular nature category that they sell our offer to. And I figured, Hey, if I can go to the top and service them, I can by osmosis again I want to see what the top looks like in every vertical, every industry that I can, so I can see how I can play, what it looks like, what top performance even looks like. That is very key. I’m driven by that. And I’m always inspired by how. The big, the, you know, the big fish swim in there in their pond, so to speak. So if you are a big fish, I don’t use that in a derogatory sense, but as a complementary sense. But it’s totally, you know, so what happened was when. In all the dealings that I did and all the different partnerships and collaborations over the years, I got one of I intercepted Dimitri Kozlov when he had created an agency called vision tech team was servicing on retainer. Clients in the online marketing direct response space where Frank Kern, digital marketer, all these players in the space thrive and they were on retainer doing design and tech and building funnels and doing all that work. And I was one of their clients. I was consulting at one of their clients and I became a client of theirs as a result. And then through that collaboration, I came on board with them and I started doing all the high level strategy with those individuals. Because to me that was my end. That was my excitement was, Hey, I want to get in and rub shoulders and get I’ll get close to the top. So from there, what happened is, as a byproduct of our work, we were building brands without knowing. Because it was what our clients needed on retainer. We were utilizing the retainer to the fullest and as a by-product that was happening. And we, and I, you know, I took a step back from and said, Hey, we’re going to separate business here that we’re building on accident almost. And this is, this to me, could be more exciting than what we’re doing from a design and tech retainer side really helping to express individuals at the highest level to get more results and to properly, you know, there’s a disparity now in the space where people are doing exceptional work out there in the real. But it turns out when somebody outside of them doesn’t really know who they are, finds them online. Man is a huge gap between who they are online and how they show up in the real world does not match. And that’s a problem. It’s a problem. A lot of businesses have a problem for a lot of individuals, especially for a lot of firms.

Chris Dreyer

Personal injury brands are often built on the name of their founding attorney, which creates some potential for overlap between the personal and the professional. I asked Mike if this hybrid approach has an impact on how you should market yourself, and if it’s still worth having a personal website separate from your law firm.

Mike Budny

So the most important thing is the audience and the visitor and the prospect of the future client. Right. And what will appeal to them? What do they want? And what is important to them. With a firm, the most important thing is to say that like people don’t buy into brands, logos, visual identities that don’t have a human component to them. People don’t like, that’s not, there’s nothing to connect to without that. So there’s actually an upside to having your name on a firm. If you actually properly represent and showcase your. Well online, but there’s a distinction. There’s a lot of distinctions to doing that at a high level, it’s not enough to just slap your face on the, above the fold of your website and, you know, and then wash your hands a bit. You’ve got to actually explain to people what people really want to know is who are you and why are you devoting your life to this? What are you about? Like, what’s an and not about how accomplished you are. If it’s done, right? They’ll get that sense. But it’s about why you do what you do, because if we, if you are humanized and your firm is a by-product of that’s what people want. People want to know that you’re just like them and that you’re there to help and support them. You can showcase your verdicts and your wins. But to me, the reality is what really moves the needle is that people know that you’re there, that you’ll care. You’ll listen to them. And you’ve got their back. You’ve got to fight for them. The two currencies that we all deal in with, whether it’s having your own personal brand or the, or your firm, just your firm’s brand, standing strong, those two currencies, regardless if you sell widgets or if you do personal injury does not matter. The two currencies are trust and likeability because at the end of the day, you’re dealing with human beings and we all. Decisions buying decisions, relationship decisions on trust. I do. I like you do I trust you and there’s no better way to build that bridge than telling your story at a high level that humanizes you. And if you do that’s what people, what’s what wins people over it, it pulls on their heartstrings and they go, man, this person, I see myself in this person, or I relate, or man, if they’ve been through that, I know what they’ll be willing to go through for me. And if you can do that on now on while the way we advise on personal over firm is really, if you want to go gangbusters, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna stir up a lot. Look, you’re already advertising a lot. You’re already putting a lot in on SEO and traffic and as a by-product that people want to know who you are behind the firm. So they’re going to have a look, people Google your name all day long, whether you know it or not. What shows up is if you’re leaving it up to chance, who knows, there might be reviews about you, it might be this and that. But you’re not controlling the narrative that actually represents you and expresses you properly is what the truth of it is. If that’s important to you, which in many cases, it probably should be having at least some level of presence, a presence there that can properly represent you. Then point back to your firm is is a big win. Those that want to go deeper and want to really advocate for, Hey, I’m a thought leader in this space. I’ve accomplished a lot. I have a lot to give and share and teach. Man is even a bigger and more powerful play that doesn’t, but it doesn’t matter what boat you’re in. People are going to have a look, people are going to search your name and they’re going to see what up.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, so I couldn’t agree more. Right. You have a brands, you have it no matter what. So walk us through this process because you know, someone like myself, it’s like, well, what is my brand like, who am I like? You know, how what’s this process look like? You know, how do does influence work with personal injury attorneys or personal injury law firms to understand their brand, you know, who maybe aren’t aware of what it is.

Mike Budny

That’s a great, that’s such a good question. And it’s really, that’s almost an impossible question to ask about yourself and about your firm. A good friend of mine. Mark Guttman says you can’t read the label when you’re inside the bottle and it’s so true. Like there’s a lot of ways to say this, right? You can’t see the forest for the trees. I think of it as like a you know, you, can’t like, there’s so many possibilities and there’s such a vision of what we hold for ourselves, but it’s hard to pick out what do I pull on? And what’s great about what we do and what makes us different in this space. And that I found from a lot of feedback from a lot of amazing clients we have right now that we’re serving in this space is that the agencies out there doing this work typically are more order takers. They’re gonna, you come to them. You tell them what you want, and they’ll hopefully try to fulfill on that. Maybe now what we do is we’re more drivers. We’re more, Hey, we want to get under the hood. We do deep work. We’re not building you away. Anybody and their grandma can build you a website. We’re going to establish your brand as the authoritative go-to option for your market. And we’re going to do that a number of ways. One is we want to get under the hood of who you really are. And the way we do that is we kind of triangulate it. One is actually feedback. You constantly hear from people, your team. Your other peers. There are people there’s a common thread of what people will tell, reflect back to you. Part of that’s your unique gift that you have. And what we want to do is we want to pull that out and figure out what’s your unique selling proposition as a firm. Are you boutique? Are you volume? Are you what’s the play and how do we make that play? Appealing to your market at a really high level. And in a lot of that’s just through through deep inquiry and triangulating that, and then really bringing that in. And then it’s also B because we bring it all under one roof, which is another thing that makes us different. We’re controlling all of the messaging for you. We’re controlling all of the visual identity work for you. And then we’re writing your story in a way that you and frankly, nobody can write about themselves because it’s hard when you’re doing it for yourself. It’s damn near impossible. You’re doing it for yourself. And because we bring all that under one roof, when we can synergize with someone like you, who brings the traffic at the highest level to the table, man, game over, because we don’t do that. We don’t bring traffic, but we can, it’s not about looking gorgeous, which we do, but it’s about converting. It’s about dancing that line between the two.

Chris Dreyer

There are plenty of beautiful websites, but in a competitive market, the copy can make all the difference. One of the biggest differentiators with Influex is they use strategic copy. A method that really highlights each firm’s unique selling propositions. I asked Mike how he and his team use copy to make their clients go from a choice to the choice.

Mike Budny

One is, one universal fact that I think we all know, but we don’t think about consciously is that people do not read website copy. So it’s super important to realize that like, okay, so you’re writing great copy, but are people reading it? The answer is not most of it, but what people are doing and the way we all consume websites for the most part is we scan we’re quickly like attention deficit disorder to the max. We’d have no- there’s just too much going on in all of our lives. And we’re summarizing and summing things up very quickly and we’re pattern recognition machines through and through. So you couple all those things together and what you get is somebody who’s just going to your site is going to load and they’re gonna be scanning down your site and they’re picking out a couple of things. One is this speaking to me? The second question they’re going to ask is what’s in it for me if they get past that. Yeah, it is speaking to me now for you guys as attorneys and firms, it’s not hard to get through. I’m speaking to you. This is what we do. What really resonates is, like I said, that makes us different as a story work that really humanizes and builds that bridge. And what the messaging that we want to do here is we speak to people in headlines. If you’re going to scan a website, you’re not going to read any of the body copy or the paragraph copy unless you get brought into it and you engage and you get roped into it. And the way we want to do that is through a really strong, bold, four word, five word headline that your eyes are gonna scan your head. And then ideally, because again, we’re doing all our custom work. The section that you’re getting roped into is custom designed for the copy. That’s the sequence of events. You never have a design happen until copy is on point and going in that direction, otherwise you got to scrap the whole thing. Oh, you got to work. They have to work in conjunction.

Chris Dreyer

That point is so strong because 99% of web design agencies do it the opposite way. They’ll do the design first and then they’ll try to shove in the copy it.

Mike Budny

Yeah, it’s it doesn’t fit all in this section. Can we, what can we do? And yeah, and I think that’s a great distinction, Chris. And what they’re really doing is they’re slapping a template on you. And they’re trying to fit you into the mold of that template. And what we do is we take a full, because we didn’t come in to do, we didn’t come in this work doing. Of work for attorneys. We did this work to build out mainly to build up personal brands and to express high-level influencers. High-level people that do make massive impact and have massive reach, wanting to make sure that their message and that we can bring them to life alive on the page. And what we’ve been able to do is translate that into what will work for a firm, but the principles and the fundamentals are very much universal in this. That technique is really important to speak in headlines. And now here’s another thing is that it’s really important as the relationship of the narrative of your messaging. So a StoryBrand, there’s a book called StoryBrand by Donald Miller. We’re not affiliated with our work. We’re not certified as writers for them, but we philosophically are very aligned with what they teach. It’s a great book worth reading – StoryBrand – and the relationship that they teach is that you are not the hero of your message. You are the guide. The visitor is the hero. So it’s super important to take yourself out of the equation and not make it about you and to make it about them, everything about them. So a lot of things like even when we tee up an intake form, which usually look like these really lame lead, like lead areas, you got to realize that your audience is even more sophisticated than they’ve ever been, because they’re, they’ve been bombarded by this stuff. And like, just simply asking, like, what’s your story, as opposed to like making this like really. Raw and dry intake form that looks like you’re becoming a lead, getting spit into a machine, and you’re going to be a number, not number on the other line, but that’s what you’ve got to avoid. So we’ve got to personalize this stuff. Like there’s, those little shifts can make a difference because we’re getting to the root of understanding who’s here and what they do.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. You know, I was thinking of, I’m a big star wars nerd. So I was thinking no to that. You’re more of the Yoda and they’re the Luke Skywalker. It’s not like you’re not the Luke Skywalker on the website. And then incorrectly a lot of times. And even from the copy’s perspective, it’ll say. We and I and less of that fuel.

Mike Budny

Exactly. A hundred percent. That’s a really important distinction because we measure we definitely look at, and judge copy based on the eyes versus the use.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. That’s great. That’s fantastic. And you know, looking at this like cohesive thing, right. You’ve got your homepage, right. Which is where the majority of the traffic typically go on a website. Right. You know, how do you, does the copywriting process, that whole story? Does it tie into all the pages in the menu in the top menu? Like how does the cohesion work in terms of tying it all together?

Mike Budny

That’s a great question. So with a firm, well, because we do all custom work. We never approach something with like, Hey, we’ve got it all figured out in advance. We’re always open to, you know, injecting something unique or custom, but with firms we’ve realized that, Hey, there’s this kind of the tried and true what we want, what’s expected. There’s convention to some sort that if you. You know, be aware because you’re dancing on a slippery slope and, you know, th the it’s a lot of the usual suspects, you know, people want to see the stories of success and what people are talking about. As a huge part of it, social proof is a needle mover. No doubt. Your wins, your verdicts, your cases, of course, all your practice areas are, you know, the bread and butter in terms of, from an SEO perspective and from a, you know, even a lead gen perspective. So Darlene knows, but you know, from a navigation, I think it’s pretty, they’re pretty consistently the same across the board of what we do. That’s one of the few areas that it doesn’t seem like it gets crazy facelift, but it’s, I think it’s mainly because we don’t, when it comes to that kind of convention, user experience convention, like we don’t want to, we don’t want a riff there. So that part, I think is really in tech. I think it’s mostly like what happens. From the above, the fold, that what that experience is visually and aesthetically. And then obviously what the messaging is driving, and then just stacking that narrative to fit all the extraction work we did to identify who that firm really is, what they’re about, what they’re really driving, what their objectives are. Just turns out. Most firms all have the same obvious objective, which is more intake and better convert. And it’s, and, you know, I it’s kind of surprising for us doing the work that we do when we come into a new vertical or newer, vertical, like attorneys and firms and to see like, oh man, this is actually the space away agency has been treating this space building. These sites is like, there’s just, no, it’s a stale out of date. Not very likely. There’s not been a lot of attention to me, factors that really matter that move that needle. So us coming in has been like, whoa, this is no, where’s the competition at, in this arena.

Chris Dreyer

It’s definitely unique. You know, I would say that, you know, a few of the 810 pound gorillas that have been around forever, your fine laws, your Juste as they just it’s this template. If you look at, you can go to any site without even looking in the footer, you’re like, oh, that’s a Justia site. That’s a fine line. Yeah, I think it just kind of all, they all blend together. Right? You’re like, it’s how are they different? And so that’s why I love what you guys do. I, you know, I look at the portfolio and I’m like, oh the heroes are different than hero. Copy that. Just the overall design. And it’s very impressive. You know, one question from the agency side, my side, and this is a little bit self-serving and I kind of wanted to get your feedback on this is, you know, One of the issues with design is like the photography, right? So it can be a bottleneck in terms of maybe the attorneys don’t have the photography or, you know, so how do you guys approach that? Do you not start until they have photography? Do you go out and send a photographer to them? Like how does that work?

Mike Budny

Photography is so huge because we all have very little to work with in terms of visual visuals to express you that will make as big of an impact as your photography, people seeing and connecting with your eyes. I mean those basics are super important in getting a first-class photography for a first-class brand is, bar none, super important. So what we do is we do almost anything it takes to help get to that point, but our process, we have a very in-depth photography guide, that outlines every type of shot there is. And every type of shot we’d want the compositions of those shots, examples, and even text describing those shots. And then what we do is we don’t wait on our process, but what we do is early on, we get on and we put all the things creatively together, and then we support in terms of like art. We know that the brand aesthetic, the look, the, feel, the direction that we’re going, the tone of the brand, even the color composition, all of this. What we do is we bring our brand director on the phone with either your preferred photographer, or we will help you source one and get you one. And we communicate with them directly to get that work. And we are in we’re in proximity, in close collaboration with them as needed. And that between the guide and the call and the, in the setup with the photographer, the process seems to be working very smooth for us in terms of back and forth and how we get to that result. So we’ve kind of figured out a little bit of a. You know, it’s somewhere in the middle. Sometimes everyone’s calm, everybody comes at it a little bit differently. Some people have their own in-house photography and then, you know, we just give a no bullshit assessment. We really can’t work with these, but this is what we can work with. You know, we want, we don’t want your site hindered by one photo shoot.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. So one of the, one of the common themes that we see in the legal space is there’s only so many versions of lady justice or scale that you can work with. So our audience, primarily personal injury attorneys, you know, who’s the perfect fit for your guys’s service, like who, you know, who would be a great fit to work with you guys.

Mike Budny

Great question. So we’re not, we’re a disclaimer, we’re not cheap. We are high-end boutique agency, and we price accordingly and we don’t, we also don’t take on everybody just due to capacity alignment fit.
We do really care about who you are, what impact you’re looking to make in the world. So it’s all these things check out is being aligned with us. The best fit would be someone who understands the value of one really great case referral and wanting, understanding that, Hey, the impact of how I show myself online and look, I’m already advertising already investing so much in getting myself out there and growing our firm. To me, it’s like, if you don’t also connect the dots between where that traffic goes and how important it is to make that first impression, the most impactful one. If you see those and those dots are easy to connect for you, you value high-end branding. That’s who we serve. But I’ll tell you, Chris, we come across people that just don’t value high-end design and branding. There, there’s lots of people out there that just don’t see, like don’t connect the dots there and if that’s you that’s okay. some people see it and get it and others just aren’t on that same approach.

Chris Dreyer

I would say most of the personal injury attorneys that are really investing in advertising, you know, have those billboard campaigns, TV campaigns are probably more of the individuals that understand it. But yeah, it is an investment. I think it’s the outlet where individuals convert, because even if you’re doing TV, radio, billboards, SEO, whatever it is or, well, that’s a bad example. The traditional media I’ll go to Google afterwards. It’s very rare. You know, in some cases that vanity phone number or that repeater phone number, the two, two, two may stick at all. But a lot of times they’re going to go to Google and they’re going to go to the website. That’s right, right. That’s right.

Mike Budny

Yea, we don’t pick up the phone and do that 800 number nearly as much as we, we used to, everyone’s got their, they’re putting up their phone, but they’re going to your website. That’s right.

Chris Dreyer

Absolutely. Mike, thanks so much for coming on the show. D do you have any final parting advice?

Mike Budny

Thank you, Chris so much for having us. I would just tell you if you aren’t working with Rankings.IO- it’s about time because just our, even in our short time of being close together and working with your team, you guys are first-class all the way. And I’ve worked with a lot of teams in SEO across other niches and industries. You guys are the best I’ve ever seen. That’s the only thing I’d say is if you aren’t working with rankings, I would strongly consider jumping off the fence.

Chris Dreyer

Well on that note, let’s book Mike again, Mike thanks so much for coming on the show.

Mike Budny

My pleasure.

Chris Dreyer

I think it’s safe to say Mike really knows what he’s talking about when it comes to maximizing the impact for your website by developing brands and implementing amazing copywriting, Influex goes above and beyond to ensure that their clients stand out from the crowd and make a personal connection with potential customers. It’s like Mike said, people need to know that you’ve got their back. I’d like to thank Mike Budny from Influex for sharing his story with us. And I hope you gained some valuable insights from the conversation you’ve been listening to the Personal Injury Marketing Mastermind. I’m Chris Dreyer. If you’d liked this episode, leave us a review. We’d love to hear from our listeners. I’ll catch you on next. Week’s PIMM with another incredible guest and all the strategies you need to master personal injury marketing.