Jacqueline Bretell:

As consumers when we have two seemingly equal companies. Those are the types of things that we’re actually going to look for to differentiate between the two.

Chris Dreyer:

Show-off to stand out, put it all on social media, happy employees and community involvement send strong signals that your firm is the right one for the job.

Jacqueline Bretell:

People want to see results of course, but I think what they want to see too is how are you treating your team. Because I think it indicates who you are as a business owner and how you’re going to treat your clients, how you’re treating your employees.

Chris Dreyer:

And welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I’m Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of rankings.io, the pre-eminent personal injury marketing agency. Before we get started, if you like what you hear, head on over to Apple or Spotify and pound that five star review button. And if you don’t like what you hear, tell me about it in a one-star review, I got a big hug for all my haters too.
Each week we talked to the best in the legal industry. Ready to nominate your market? Let’s go. In 2020, Jacqueline Bretell took over a CEO of Nevada based Bighorn Law. Her first week in office, Nevada declared a state of emergency, everything shut down. When the pandemic hit, she got the work, she chose to lead with intention and transparency. The result is a strong team and a thriving practice. Under her guidance in 2022, the firm resolved over 400 cases and recovered over $50 million. She offers her insights on grassroots and digital marketing, how to create a robust company culture and why delegation is what you need to grow. Here’s Jacqueline Bretell, CEO at Bighorn Law.

Jacqueline Bretell:

When I was 11 years old, I got really tired of kids’ books and anything that was in my library, I had deemed, of course, a kid’s book. And so I went to my dad and I asked him for a real book and he gave me a copy of John Grisham’s The Chamber. And it’s a pretty awful story and really gut-wrenching story about the death penalty. But I read it front to back, probably only understood about half of it, but from that moment forward I wanted to be a lawyer. And so, that’s what led me in this direction.

Chris Dreyer:

Then you have that peak of the mountain where you know you’re heading, so then it was just very intentional, going to school, going to law school. And tell me, jumping way ahead, ’cause I know you have a tremendous amount of experience and you’ve now been a big Bighorn Law for coming up on a decade. And you’ve been boots on the ground as an associate, a manager, now you’re top dog. So, tell me about that journey and that story.

Jacqueline Bretell:

Of course, I thought, in my career I’d want to be a criminal defense lawyer. That really changed, I had some experiences in my life that led me towards personal injury. I was in law school when the recession happened. That was a unique experience in and of itself because there weren’t a lot of jobs out there. And so, when I graduated from law school, which I went to law school in Macon, Georgia, I had a job offer with an insurance defense firm in Las Vegas. The owner of the firm was actually a Mercer alum, which is where I went to law school. Started my career, two and a half years insurance defense, which I was not cut out to do, and switched over, and I actually joined Bighorn Law straight from that insurance defense firm. So, I joined in October of 2013. This is going to almost 10 years now.
And I started as an associate attorney and I was a trial lawyer. I did some trial work. I did hundreds, if not probably thousand depositions, all of that kind of boots on the ground, really nitty-gritty legal work, and I loved it. And what happened was, in 2018, I actually started to lose my ability to hear. I have a genetic condition, it starts to present around age 30. I was 30 in 2018, going on 31. I had to pivot at that point. And so, I ended up not litigating as much, and I slowly started stepping into management roles. And then, on March 11th, 2020, the day before they declared the pandemic a state of emergency in Nevada, I was named as CEO of our firm.

Chris Dreyer:

Okay. We have to talk about that.

Jacqueline Bretell:

No, we have so many things

Chris Dreyer:

What an interesting time to just throw you to the fire, so to speak. Tell me your approach, because I think it’s interesting to, everyone had a strategy going into this time and now here you are, you’re the CEO, you’re the visionary, you’re the one casting the direction for everyone. So, how did you approach that and just look at big picture, like what you were going to do as a firm?

Jacqueline Bretell:

You have to kind of look at first just how that first week went, ’cause it really set the tone for the rest of my experience. I became CEO, it was a Wednesday night, Thursday morning I woke up, which would’ve been March 12th, and I actually drove to Barnes & Noble and I bought $300 of books on how to be a CEO because I had no idea how to do that, I was a trained litigator. And I thought, okay, I need to figure this out. And that’s of course as lawyers, we read and we study and we figure stuff out. And few hours later, our governor declared a state of emergency. The next day our court’s closed for 30 days. That would’ve been March 13th, Friday the 13th. So, Monday we went fully remote. Tuesday, the entire state closed for 30 days. And then, on Wednesday there was an earthquake in Salt Lake City that actually caused really significant damage to my office in Salt Lake City. And so, that was my first week as CEO.

Chris Dreyer:

Unreal.

Jacqueline Bretell:

And Chris, I approached it as if this is what’s going to happen, my first, it’s only going up from here, it can only get better.

Chris Dreyer:

Right.

Jacqueline Bretell:

I will tell you it actually got worse in quite a few different places, but… So, I would say the first year, my first, 2020, I was doing what so many people were doing. I was just trying to survive and I was trying to get us through it. I read a book really early on, one of those $300 worth of books I bought from Barnes & Noble was on Authentic Leadership, and it was an HBR series with compilations of essays on Authentic Leadership. And one of them was talking about being really transparent as a CEO about the conditions and where the firm is going. And so, I really took that to heart.
We started doing state-of-the firm drops, video drops, just trying to communicate with our team and give them a clear idea of where the firm was, and to give them some hope and direction about where the firm was going. And that was really, really hard because I was captaining a ship and I was also doing that blind. I had no idea where I was going. So 2020 was surviving for me, and 2021 was when I really dug in and said, “Okay, now I really have to figure out how to be a CEO.” So, that was when things really started to come together for me. And I really started really intentionally trying to do this job to the best of my abilities.

Chris Dreyer:

I love the radical transparency. I think that when people don’t know what’s going on, they kind of fill it with the worst thoughts in their head. And I think that was a really strong move, strategically. I’m kind of curious too, ’cause I’m a huge book nerd, and I say this super transparently, me and my wife, literally last week we went to Barnes & Noble and we probably spent like $200 bucks.

Jacqueline Bretell:

Good. Yeah.

Chris Dreyer:

So, I’m curious, what were some of those other books that helped with this new role you’re undertaking?

Jacqueline Bretell:

I love HBR’s Top 10 series. They have on all different subjects, there’s a Women in Leadership, Authentic Leadership, Emotional Intelligence series is phenomenal. I read a lot of those. I like them because they’re essays, they’re peer reviewed. The other book that was really impactful for the way that I restructured the business in 2021 was Traction by Gino Wickman. I’m a huge traction nerd. I love all of that. And finally, Fireproof by Mike Morris was a big impactful read for me that really caused me to hyper-focus on how I can implement traction within our firm. And so, those are probably my top ones. All those HBR books and then Traction and Fireproof.

Chris Dreyer:

Fantastic. And we are traction agency. We’ve been one for a while. I’ve read Fireproof, Mike Morrison, John O. Casler are fantastic. Let’s dig into that. You got your visionary, you got your integrator. Did you have someone internal that kind of rose to the top that was the end of year Yang in terms of that integrator? Or did you have to go out and search for that integrator?

Jacqueline Bretell:

I am actually in negotiations with somebody and building that role out. But I know that for me personally, to take the firm into the next step of progress that I want to take, I have to have a true implementer in that role. So, even though I am good at it, I can do it, it’s really not the best use of my talents. I need to implement more of these great ideas that I get every day.

Chris Dreyer:

It’s such a hard role to find. Let’s talk growth though, because Bighorn Law is growing like crazy, and I had Marc Anidjar from Anidjar & Levine and he was talking about the Holy Trinity of marketing for law firms is TV, radio, and digital. What’s your approach when you think of growth and putting your name out there, how does Bighorn Law approach it?

Jacqueline Bretell:

I don’t approach it that way, and I will tell you why. I am a little bit anti TV. I think it’s archaic. I think it’s expensive. I think that when we’re looking at the amount of impressions that we can get for the amount of dollars spent, it doesn’t make sense to me. And I think that you have to spend so much money and have such an established reputation. And I really truly think that in five years, even the way that we kind of watch TV now is not going to exist anymore. I think everything is going to be digital. I don’t envision us ever spending on traditional television. We also don’t spend on traditional billboards. It is a hot and heavy market and competitive market, and I just don’t see a path where that really makes sense for us. What I’m not opposed to when we talk about television, I am very open to filming a commercial and putting it on Hulu, putting it on YouTube, putting it on these digital streaming services where you actually have some important role-

Chris Dreyer:

Like OTT?

Jacqueline Bretell:

… totally. Yeah, I’m on board with that. I think the number one thing that we really focus on are relationships. There are personal injury law firms that really rely heavily on maybe getting cases from one particular medical provider. In Las Vegas, we have really, in the last 10 to 15 years changed the conversation where clients don’t go to a medical provider, they go to an attorney first. So, it makes it really, really hard to develop a relationship with a provider where you’re getting all your cases from them because they’re not typically getting unwrecked clients. And so, while we do have relationships with medical providers, I believe more in relationships in unconventional ways.
For example, with unions where we provide education and we provide resources, and if they choose to come to us then, because there’s a trust relationship that has now been built, that is a great result, but if they don’t, I’m okay with that too. And so, how can we build relationships with people in the community so that we are a trusted resource in the community. And I think that if you’re looking at people who are looking for an attorney, we do very well in building that kind of atmosphere, and so I think it works.

Chris Dreyer:

If you see a future in video ads, but want to lower your cost per impression, look at digital. Streaming services could be the best way to reach your clients as watching habits become more fractured. Beyond digital marketing, Jacqueline’s philosophy is that you have to build relationships. I’m talking about grassroots marketing that boots on the ground, community building. Jacqueline explains how to tap into your existing networks.

Jacqueline Bretell:

I’m a big motorcycle rider. I have great relationships with lots of people in town, but I know that I’m going to have more success marketing with female motorcycle riders, which now make up 19% of the motorcycle community. How can I build relationships with them? So, one of the things that we did, as an example, is I made the decision that we were going to do motorcycle death cases on a 0/40 retainer. Meaning if I can resolve a prelitigation, I’m going to do a pro bono. It’s the right thing to do. And I’m going to tell you why, is because most of the time in these cases, it’s a $25,000 minimum policy. And I just don’t feel right taking that from somebody’s kids or somebody’s family member when they have lost that person. If it’s a multimillion dollar case, guess what? It’s never going to settle in pre lit anyway.
So, from an economic sense, I think it’s the right thing to do, but it also, from a business sense, it makes sense. So, if we are sitting here and we’re building relationships within the community, I am riding alongside these women they know. By the way, I usually get their husbands, their brothers and stuff anyway, because women typically are making these decisions in their family. But I really focused on the female motorcycle riding community, and that was easy for me to do, Chris, because I’m already in that community.

Chris Dreyer:

Right.

Jacqueline Bretell:

And so, each one of our attorneys, they have their own community. For example, we have a gentleman who’s really big into the rock climbing community. So, each year we allocate a portion of our marketing budget towards each one of our attorneys so they can invest in their passion projects. If he wants to invest in sponsoring, for example, the rock climbing community did a film festival, so we had Bighorn sponsor that, and he was able to use his allocated money for that project. He’s then the face of that. He’s already in that community, we don’t have to be inauthentic about this, that is his community already.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s the perfect word that I was on the tip of my tongue was authentic. And I had Dave Thomas from Law Tigers on, and we were digging into his strategy and he’s like, “Hey, we hire motorcycle riders, and then they develop relationships with the Harley dealers, and then they actually go to these events. And since you’re a rider, you’re being authentic so you can have these amazing time and build these relationships.” I love that so much. And the rock climber gets to do it what they enjoy, and it’s just one of those kind of rising tides where everything has this increase in value. I think that’s so smart. And also from just a social media perspective, which is where digital is going, you can get a lot better social media creative. There’s nothing worse than if a firm is just showing the reviews and trying to repurpose a blog and not actually showing the individuals at the firm or in a part of the community.

Jacqueline Bretell:

Yep, you’re exactly right about that. And I think on social media, it’s really interesting because I’ve been on social media since I was 15 years old. So, I mean my husband now, he’s 14 years older than me, he’s going to be 50 this year. He’s the only person I’ve ever dated in my life that didn’t have a social media presence ever. He’s the only one. And so, that has created lots of very interesting conversations. But social media is so much a part of my life. And I do know that, for me, when I’m shopping for a brand or if I’m shopping for a company, I do look at, for example, if I’m on Instagram, I’m going to look at how do they treat their team. Are their employees happy? How do they treat their customers and are they doing good in the community? Because I think that as consumers when we have two seemingly equal companies, those are the types of things that we’re actually going to look for to differentiate between the two if the product is really the same.
So, I think as far as marketing on social media for us, how can we show the things that we are doing in the community, which is a little bit hard for us, Chris, because we’re pretty humble people. We tend to do stuff and not talk about it, that’s just who we are. So, forcing us to get out a little bit out of our comfort zone and to talk about the things that we’re doing in the community. And then, also people want to see results of course, but I think what they want to see too is how are you treating your team. Because I think it indicates who you are as a business owner and how you’re going to treat your clients, how you’re treating your employees.

Chris Dreyer:

I had a culture topic next. And I want to talk about that because there was a culture that existed when you join and that culture kept you there. You love this and you rose to the ranks. How are you intentional about the culture and what goes into making the culture so robust and powerful?

Jacqueline Bretell:

This is near and dear to my heart because I think that when you, especially right now, we’re all trying to attract talent, right? And I think that if you want to attract talent, sure you can throw all the money that you wanted them, but they’re not going to stay, because people, especially when you’re looking at Gen Zs and millennials, which is the vast majority of our workforce and legal now, they want a place where they feel valued and where they feel like they’re actually doing good. And so, I will tell you one of the best things that I loved the most about the firm when I joined, and we still do it, is we have a Friday morning meeting. Now, it used to be at 7:00 AM on Fridays, when we moved about two years ago, I moved it to 8:00 AM which was a big shock for everybody. It’s 45 minutes long and we always start off by giving sunshine to each other.
It’s a firm wide meeting. Everybody’s together. And today, for example, we did it. We started at 8:00 and I think it was 8:28, and we only go for 45 minutes and everybody was still giving sunshine. It warms my heart to see somebody from intake giving love to somebody in dispersal, and just that public acknowledgement of the things that we’re doing. I think our job in legal is really hard, and we’re dealing with people who are hurt that are not their best selves, who don’t feel good. Our clients can sometimes be difficult. We love them, but they can sometimes be difficult. We’re dealing with opposing counsel who we love less, but they can oftentimes be difficult, and we’re dealing with a lot of deadlines that can be so stressful. And so, how can we make this an environment where people still want to come in and where they feel at least satisfaction in the place that they work even though they’re doing this really hard and stressful job.
We do have somebody who’s in charge of people, for lack of better words, her exact title is Director of Talent Acquisition People and Culture. So, that encompasses definitely HR, but it also encompasses recruiting, and finally, and most importantly in my opinion, it encompasses the culture and the people and investing in them. Some of the things that we have done really well that I’m really proud of, these were not my ideas. I hired great people and they came up with these ideas. The first one was we developed a social committee. It’s a six-month term. Their supervisor has to sign off on its volunteer basis, and they come up with all of the events that we do first for the next six months.
For example, at Mother’s Day, we did, I think, ice cream Sundays for the whole office, not just the moms. And I think we handed out flowers to all of the moms. For Father’s Day, we did popcorn where the social committee went around and they handed out bags of popcorn and they had little bow ties or something on them. I don’t remember exactly, but it allowed me to kind of take that off me. I didn’t have to be 100% responsible for these little things. And I think when you’re starting to look at these little tiny details, it seemed silly, but it actually is very popular with the team and it makes them have something to look forward to and just break up the stress of the day.
The second thing that we did was our CFO’s idea, and I thought it was just genius the way that it implemented, but she came up with budgets. They’re reevaluated every quarter, but we look at the number of people on a team and then their immediate supervisor gets a budget per month per team member. So, if they have, I think it’s like $40 per month for per team member. And so, then they can save it all the way to the end of the quarter and they can blow it all out in one big party or whatever they want to do. But it allows the actual supervisors to then invest in their team so they can use it to take them to lunch, to take them to breakfast. They can do a painting party. And that has really taken the pressure off me as the CEO, because now all of a sudden they are creating loyalty and creating trust within their smaller team, and it’s allowed them to create a generation of just happiness within their team and within their structure.

Chris Dreyer:

I love that it’s the six-month term because then someone else can come in with their new ideas and probably the previous members can then assist those individuals. So, there’s that kind of bond and teamwork there. I also think it’s really smart with the budgets for-

Jacqueline Bretell:

Me too.

Chris Dreyer:

… for your managers.

Jacqueline Bretell:

Yeah.

Chris Dreyer:

When someone does a good job, you shouldn’t have to go up the ladder to do a simple reward to kudos them. The constant question about HR, and I love that you call it talent people and culture, is when. So, there’s different levels of size of companies, size of firms listening, maybe there’s a solo practitioner to a 10 person to a 30. At what point should they consider investing into that position?

Jacqueline Bretell:

When I started at Bighorn, there was only about 10 of us total. And so, we didn’t have HR. The two founding partners were HR. And I think that there gets a point in the growth where that no longer makes sense, but I think that companies should really look at hiring an outside HR agency, even if it’s like on a contract and they’re handling one or two things pretty early on. And I say that because we can view, the old school mentality on HR is that it’s not good and it’s scary.

Chris Dreyer:

Right.

Jacqueline Bretell:

But my generation, I think we’re doing a good job of really reevaluating HR. I view HR as an important aspect of employee happiness and of protecting our employees. It would be hard for me to be a personal injury attorney and not also want to protect my employees. Those would not match up, right? That is my job as is, I protect people. =
And so, I think HR, it is so much more than discipline. It’s everything from onboarding and getting your people set up properly. It is making sure that you have policies and procedures that are in place, because as a business owner, those policies and procedures are actually going to protect you should anything arise. I think that getting an and maybe outsourcing with an outside agency, I think as soon as, if you’re looking at five employees, six employees, it’s probably time to do that. And it’s going to take a lot off you as an owner, but it’s so important for your team to have that avenue where they can go and they can make complaints. They can submit time off request in an unbiased fashion. I think it’s important that you established that really early on, if you want to have longevity and retention of your team.

Chris Dreyer:

If you aren’t sure about hiring an HR person, I get it, I’ve been there, but for us, it’s been so beneficial. Shout out to Ashley if you’re listening. As your firm grows, you can’t run the business and be HR. On that note, we’re going to dive into a topic that I know many of you have a love-hate relationship with. Delegation.

Jacqueline Bretell:

I definitely have struggled with that, Chris, over the years. I think just most people struggle with delegating. I think that we get it in our head that we’re like only I can do this task. And I will tell you that every time that I have said, “I don’t have time to do this, I need to have somebody else do this.” I have been so happy that I did it because it turns out they actually do it better than I do. And so, I think for me, it’s intentional. I have to basically wake up each day and say to myself, “You will delegate things today.” So, for example, I’m planning an investiture reception for a new judge who’s who just got sworn in and it’s been all on me. And I woke up and I was overwhelmed by it, and I said, “All right, then today’s the day that I’m just not going to do this anymore.”
So, I sat down with my assistant, “I said, here are the 10 things that have to happen, and guess what?” She’s already done all those things. And so, I’m so grateful. By the way, she did so much better than I did. I’m so grateful that I did that. And I think, each day I try and do better about it, but it is an intentional thing that I have to make myself do is that delegation, because I don’t do it naturally. I have a tendency that I can do anything, and I’ve got all the time in the world, and the reality is that I’m doing a disservice to every other department in our firm if I don’t actually delegate things out.
The other thing is I have really talented people. I always say, “We only hire unicorns. And unicorns are rare. They’re unique. They’re like, you might see one in a hundred thousand and that’s what we hire.” ‘Cause they have to be a unicorn. And so, if I’m going to sit here and say, I’ve got all these unicorns here, well, I better use them. And I better make sure that I’m giving them and letting them live up to that talent. And so, it’s been a progress for me. It’s not something that comes naturally, Chris. Like most people, it’s been tough, but I have had to force myself to do it and I’ve always been grateful each time that I actually did it.

Chris Dreyer:

Well, thank you for your candor. Thank you for the transparency, that’s amazing though. What’s next for Bighorn Law, and where can people go to connect with you?

Jacqueline Bretell:

You can follow me on Instagram, or on TikTok @jrb.esq. That is kind of where I post predominantly is on those two platforms. You can also follow the firm at Bighorn Law on both TikTok, Instagram, or also on Facebook. I think next for us, I really view Bighorn, we focused last year so much on documenting all of our policies and procedures. I’m a big goal setter, so for us this year, our overarching big picture goal is we are revamping our customer service department by department with the goal of, I want to have the best customer service in the country when it comes to a law firm. So, when you walk into our office right now, you’re going to smell fresh baked cookies. We bake cookies every single morning, and so our reception will offer you a fresh baked cookie as soon as you come in, ’cause when you don’t feel good, nothing feels better than a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie. Doing that and implementing things like that throughout our entire firm culture, that for us is what’s up next.
We have a phenomenal team. We’re growing. I want to be in two more states by the end of this year, and we want to do that because we’re really good at what we do and we know we can help more people. And so, we’re going to continue our expansion and our growth, we’re going to continue hiring amazing people, and we’re going to continue doing really good work for our clients because that’s what they deserve.

Chris Dreyer:

Thanks so much to Jacqueline Bretell at Bighorn Law for everything she shared today. Let’s hit the PIMM Points.
PIMM Point number one, build that grassroots community. Do where you already hang out. Think about your hobbies, clubs, organizations and passions. Go where you know. Hit the slopes this winter, chat people up in the chair, running your thing, sponsor a 5k. Jacqueline is an avid motorcycle rider and she looks for people like her to represent Women Who Ride.
PIMM Pointint-

Jacqueline Bretell:

How can I build relationships with them? I am riding alongside these women. I usually get their husbands, their brothers and stuff anyway, because women typically are making these decisions in their family, but I really focused on the female motorcycle riding community, and that was easy for me to do, Chris, because I’m already in that community.

Chris Dreyer:

Number two, your clients are savvy. They know what they want in a brand. They use social media to see if you stack up. You could have the best community events, the happiest app, and the best results; if you don’t put it all on social media, how will anyone hear about it? When shopping for a firm, if two look the same, how would they choose? How would you choose?

Jacqueline Bretell:

What they want to see too is how are you treating your team. Because I think it indicates who you are as a business owner and how you’re going to treat your clients, how you’re treating your employees.

Chris Dreyer:

To round it out, here’s PIMM Point number three. Jacqueline shared how to build a robust culture. The little things matter, like going to lunch or getting popcorn on special days, but as your firm grows, the little gestures of appreciation will slip through the cracks. Give that power to your team, they get to build trust with their peers, and you get to practice delegation and get some of your time back.

Jacqueline Bretell:

We’re all trying to attract talent, right? Sure, you can throw all the money that you wanted them, but they’re not going to stay because people, especially when you’re looking at Gen Zs and millennials, which is the vast majority of our workforce and legal now, they want a place where they feel valued and where they feel like they’re actually doing good.

Chris Dreyer:

I’m Chris Dreyer. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind. If you made it this far, it’s time to pay the tax. No, I’m not talking about taking your cash like Big G. I’m asking you for a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Leave me a review and I’ll forever be grateful. If this is your first episode, welcome and thanks for hanging out. Come back each week for fresh interviews where you can hear from those making it rain. Now, get out there and dominate.