Harry Morton

I think trust is hugely valuable in the legal space, right? Like, especially with PI and all forms of law, I’m sure, but you know, people really want to feel like they can trust their attorney.

Chris Dreyer

If you’re listening to this, you know about podcasts, but what you might not know is how valuable they can be for your business.

Harry Morton

And I think that having a platform that, that displays both your, your authority on the subject, that you’re an expert in, displays your kind of capacity to know what you’re talking about. So not just authority, but your ability, your skill, but it also allows you to build trust over time, which I think is really valuable.

Chris Dreyer

You’re listening to the Personal Injury Marketing Mastermind, the show where elite personal injury attorneys and leading edge marketers give you exclusive access to growth strategies for your firm. Harry Morton creates branded podcasts for businesses across the world. His company Lower Street has produced hundreds of episodes across industries from technology to tourism. So he knows a finger to about making a compelling offer. We sat down to talk, shop what podcasts bring as a marketing channel trends in the audio world. And what separates a good episode from a great one. I’m your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. We help elite personal injury attorneys dominate first page rankings with search engine optimization. Being at the forefront of marketing is all about understanding people. So let’s get to know our guest here’s Harry Morton, founder, and CEO of Lower Street.

Harry Morton

So it was, uh, yeah, a bit of a winding path. I finished university and went to work in audio post-production. So I was working on for a company that did a lot of, uh, kind of big ad campaigns for. The big agencies in London. Um, uh, so I was kind of living that, that central London life earning very little money and waking up, you know, you were the first one in the studio in the morning and the last one to leave at night and earning the least and, uh, and kind of did the hard yards there. And I did that for a couple of years and, um, you know, learned a lot about, uh, I guess. You know, working in marketing, working in advertising. Um, but also I learned that I, I did not like that environment super stressful and, uh, just kind of, not as rewarding as I’d kind of, you know, you come out of school as this sort of, uh, you know, aspiring musician, creative person, and then you’re thrust into sort of, you know, A pretty fast paced ad ad agency, world. And that wasn’t quite my scene. So I quit that and ended up traveling a bunch. And, um, and through that experience did a load of sales and marketing roles. Um, and, and really through, from about 2012 was listening to podcasts and was, it was my main kind of medium of consuming information. Cause I, I knew that whole time that I wanted to start my own thing. I just didn’t know. That would look like. Um, and it was sort of, uh, you know, through, through that process of listening to a bunch of different business podcasts from Tim Ferriss to Seth Godin, to, you know, whoever else, um, That I realized that, you know, the, the answer was staring me in the face and it was podcasting. That’s kind of, you know, what I, I knew audio and, and, uh, and it was, that was the opportunity for me. So, so yeah, that, that kind of led to me quitting my sales and marketing job and setting out on, on the sort of a journey to build an agency. And it’s, uh, it’s, it’s been awesome. Um, I guess it’s funny, you sort of start off with, at least in my experience, I started a business with, uh, a fair amount of, kind of. You know, certainly naivety and, and probably a fair bit of ego as well. Cause you know, I came from the audio background and I looked at the landscape of people are running podcast agencies and thought, you know, I can do better than that. Like that they’re not so good. I, you know, I can do better. Yeah. Um, and so sort of jumped into it feet first, but uh, luckily for me, it’s kind of panned out.

Chris Dreyer

Okay. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And we’re, we’re very happy clients of yours. Uh, uh, you know, the rankings podcast is, uh, uses your company Lower Street, and we’re going to really dive in that moment, but your story reminds me a lot of the E-Myth the Michael Gerber, the technician, you know, then they’re like, oh, like I can do it better. I mean, that’s the story of a lot of entrepreneurs. And I appreciate that. And I think that’s, uh, a neat trajectory that everything kind of aligned sales and marketing your audio into what you’re doing now.

Harry Morton

That’s right. And I guess, coming from the angle that the constant battle you’re facing then is trying to get yourself out of doing all of the, of the product of the work. Right. Because it’s your expertise, it’s why you started that business. And so suddenly it becomes harder to sort of yeah. Remove yourself from, from being that expert on the ground. Right. Instead of kind of managing and growing and strategy and so on.

Chris Dreyer

Absolutely. And I think that’s a struggle that many of us have just many business owners, you know? So before we Harry, one of the things I wanted to talk about is, is look. Already been, you know, remote through the entire pandemic and you’ve hosted over 150 episodes in the podcast called a work from home, you know, are there any tips for those who have transitioned to working, uh, you know, working from home, you know, some things that have really helped you succeed in that area.

Harry Morton

Yeah. Yeah. So we started the podcast in, we ran it all through 2020 as a kind of a response to the pandemic is, um, you know, we’re a remote team already, so we kind of felt like we had some stuff to chat about there. And it was something we were really interested in. Uh, I think, you know, the themes that came out of it mostly were, were just around kind of. Almost that the kind of psychological side of it, rather than like, you know, you didn’t get this chair or this piece of software and you’ll be set. I think it was just so much more around like taking care of yourself. Essentially. I think what, what we saw like loads of people doing was actually working more as a result of working from home rather than less, you know, the kind of dream that everyone has in their mind of I’m going to work from home and I can put my feet up and it’s gonna be great. There’s no commute, but actually what people were doing was just working a ton more. It’s actually much harder to switch off because of that. So basically the best advice I have is go for more walks, give yourself more breaks. I mean, give yourself a break literally and give yourself a break figuratively as well. You know, don’t, I think a lot of people put a lot of pressure on themselves to kind of do that stuff. Um, so yeah, that would be it. Um, time away from the computer is, is as productive as time in front of it, as we see it, um, Removing distractions as well. Like I live in a house with a toddler and a baby, so it’s not so easy to remove distractions, but, uh, yeah, there can be lots of those at home.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, for sure. You know, one of the things that I just realized when you’re speaking about this is when I was working from home now I’m back in our commercial space, but when I was working from home, our master bedrooms on the same floor as our office, so it’s like roll out of the bed, get ready and you’re at work. And I just always felt like I was at work. And before I met my wife, I didn’t even sleep in the master bedroom. I slept downstairs because in the smaller room, because it felt like I was off work. When I went downstairs into the bay. No. It was like a, an easy transition to like sh like flip the switch and the mind. I don’t know what it actually really worked for me. Um, and that’s part of the reason why I like coming to the office. It’s like, okay, I’m going to the office to work now when I go home, I’m off work.

Harry Morton

Absolutely know there’s this concept of, uh, of the third space that was kind of written about by this Australian author [Adam Fraser] who I’ve forgotten the name of. So I’ll make it. We, uh, our writers put it in the show notes, but there’s that he, he basically did a ton of research about this. And it’s the idea of the third space. That being the space between work and home so that you have that kind of like, even if it’s a two minute thing. And so what he recommends is that literally you finish work, you walk out the front door, you walk around the block. Come back into the house and it just allows that kind of reset, um, kind of like what you’re saying, right? Like if your work is upstairs and your home is downstairs, you kind of have that mental switch. Um, so I think even if we don’t have the commute, the kind of virtual commute is kind of really important too.

Chris Dreyer

Super smart, super smart. I like that a lot. So, so let’s dive right into your expertise. Let’s, let’s dive right into branded podcasts and you have so much to offer here, and I’m really excited about this. Let’s start with the basics. You know, what kind of podcasts do for your business that you can’t get from other mediums?

Harry Morton

Yeah, so I think, what podcasting does best is, we see levels of engagement, uh, that, that you just don’t see in any other media. I think, you know, if we, if we look at the statistics behind it and we do, we spend a lot of time nerding out on this stuff, um, behind the kind of consumption of podcasts that say a 30 minute podcast, you know, we’re commonly seeing 80, 85, 90% completion rates. Meaning the average listener is listening to, you know, 90% of that content, uh, of a 30 minute episode. That’s a period of time that you’re spending with your, with your customer, with your client, with your prospect, that you just can’t get anywhere else. So if you, you know, for example, you pay that to social. You’ll be really hard pressed to get, you know, the average person listened to more than five, 10, maybe percent of a video that you put out on social or a, you know, a post or whatever. Um, email open rates, you know, anything above 50% is a really great. Um, uh, and so to be able to consistently week over week, spend 30 minutes of your time with the people that you’re trying to reach is, is really powerful. Um, and I guess the other side is that it’s, it’s a really good way of, um, that, that the level of authenticity, it’s a very intimate medium, right? We sit here with headphones on it’s kind of a one-to-one. Excuse me. It’s kind of a one-to-one medium rather than a standing on a stage where you’re talking to a thousand people at once. It feels like it’s kind of one-to-one. And so that level of relationship you can build with your audience is super powerful. So yeah, that’s, that’s what we, we should.

Chris Dreyer

I, so, uh, you know, we, we’ve done, uh, we’re over 70 episodes now and I never thought of it like that. I can’t imagine if I was trying to hold someone’s attention on YouTube glow, what I have to do to keep him for 30 minutes on a consistent basis. Whereas podcasts it’s, you know, individuals probably listen to the whole episode, um, every time.

Harry Morton

Exactly. Right. And, and that’s partly because of what you’re used to. It’s the habit you’re used to listen to podcasts, but it’s also, yeah. Because you can listen while you’re driving or walking the dog or doing the dishes or whatever. So it’s like, it can be something you’re doing when your hands are busy, you know? Yeah.

Chris Dreyer

So let’s talk about, you know, you know, how to podcast fit into an overall marketing strategy, like an overall larger marketing strategy for a business.

Harry Morton

Sure. So I think, I think where we see podcasts is they’re very much a topic. Thing is, you know, if we’re talking about the marketing funnel, um, it, it’s a very early stage, uh, kind of piece of that, um, funnel. I mean, you can of course optimize your show to, to serve whatever purpose you want. But generally speaking, the reason that it’s very powerful is it’s, you’re able to build that trust with your audience. And so it might be that you’re building you’re, you’re putting out content and, you know, In your case, it’s about SEO. You know, you can put out really valuable content on SEO and your ideal buyer might be out there listening to this right now. And they’re not ready today. Uh, but they’re ready in six months, a year’s time. Uh, but during that period of listening to you talk about what, you know, best. Uh, they’ve built an incredible amount of trust in you. So I think that’s, that’s where podcasting is, is really valuable. I think we also see a lot of value right down at the well beyond the funnel actually, and your existing clients, I think in terms of kind of educating your customers, you know, maybe less so in, in a sort of services space, the agency space that you’re in an IRN, but that the kind of SAS space that the software space, I think a lot of times, you know, um, customers can be educated on how to be successful with their tools. And that can be a really great way to kind of. You know, continue that relationship beyond the point of them kind of making a purchase decision. So that’s where I see podcasting. It’s really great right at the beginning. And it’s really great at retaining people and keeping them on into the future.

Chris Dreyer

So kind of like that, know, like, um, more on that end. The, uh, well, I guess it, I guess it hits the, even the trust aspect of the know, like, and trust

Harry Morton

Because it’s so personal. Like I think listeners of this show will feel that they have a really good understanding of you who you are as a person, Chris. And I think that’s a super powerful thing.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one other thing that I heard at the recently that was kind of surprising, but it makes, but it doesn’t make sense is the, the income, the overall average income of someone that listens to a podcast is significantly higher. You know, have you heard of any statistics or anything related to the audience? Uh, the general audience of those that listen to podcasts?

Harry Morton

Yeah, you’re right. The sort of archetypal podcast listener and that’s changing all the time. Right. Because, um, you know, for example, Spotify are making a huge amount of noise in the podcast space right now, and they have just an, an enormous kind of footprint globally. And that’s really changing the landscape of podcasting actually. But the core kind of base of podcasting is, you know, is really built around people that are, you know, well-educated university education and beyond. Um, as you mentioned, kind of higher up. I very slightly skews male, but I think that that’s, that’s changing all the time. Um, uh, and, and it’s biggest in, you know, the biggest markets are in the us, UK, Canada, Australia, those kinds of places. Um, so in terms of that kind of B2B play, it’s a, it’s a great medium that is listened to by the right folks, at least for most businesses,

Chris Dreyer

Having launched dozens of shows, Harry has seen what it takes to get a podcast off the ground. I asked him his advice for businesses that are thinking about venturing into the world of podcasts.

Harry Morton

Yeah, I think, um, the first and most important thing is really to think about why you’re making a podcast. Cause I think a lot of people come to us and they say, we’ve got this great idea for a show. We’re really excited. We’re going to build a huge audience and it’s going to be great. It’s. And so what they quite often do is will come to me with a concept. And so they’ve, you know, they’ve got this idea, we’re going to speak to X group of people about this topic, and this is how we’re going to be. You know, this is why the show is gonna be great. I think where we see the most success is when people actually think about instead, what, what is the business objective I have here? What am I trying to achieve? Who am I trying to reach? Like, so who’s our target buyer or prospect or whatever that we want to be our audience and what do they need right now? Offer, um, because rather than coming at it from here’s the show, I’ve got this idea for, how do I find the listeners that I want to listen to it. We prefer to go the other way and say, here are the listeners, here’s what you have to offer. How can we build something that kind of meets their needs? So like what shows are they already listening to? You know, um, what other podcasts are already serving that vertical, where their gaps and how can we. Make something unique because you know, we’re in a world where there’s 2 million podcasts in existence, so there’s no shortage of choice. So we need to make sure that we’re actually offering something genuinely unique and differentiated. Um, so that would be what I would say. Uh, the other thing I would say is. While it’s incredibly important to come out of the gate sounding good. And, you know, because you want to represent yourself properly in this, in this medium, um, getting started is just the most important thing. Um, so, you know, if you’re a DIY podcast or you’re considering starting podcasting start now because you know, the old cliche, the best time to start a podcast with 10 years ago, but the second-best time is today. So just get started because, um, it will take a while to kind of see. That listenership. Um, and so, you know, the effect over time will, will certainly compound. So yeah, get started.

Chris Dreyer

I love that piece of advice. And I want to talk about the, kind of the opposite end of this, just briefly before we talk about some more advantages and things, but you know, where, where do you see just some of the most common, uh, issues? Where did, where to companies go wrong with their show?

Harry Morton

Yeah. So I think it’s just not doing enough preparation. I think a lot of folks come into podcasting and go cool. You know, I’m in, you know, blockchain technology. I’ve got this great idea. I’m going to interview blockchain technologists. And, uh, we’re just going to put that out. Um, and that’s gonna be great. And, and. Doubtless, there will be some value there, but I think what would really benefit, uh, most podcasts is, is to spend just a lot more time preparing that, not just the concept of what the show is going to be, but also preparing for each individual episode. Um, because rather than just sitting down with someone and hoping that you have an engaging conversation, really spending the time to think about what you want, what unique value does this person have to, to, to offer and how can we dig that out of them? I think that’s where we see mistakes being made. It’s just people kind of basically doing, uh, you know, the easy route, right. It just kind of go going cool. These are the guests. We’ll sit down, we’ll record them for an hour and it’ll, it’ll be great. The truth is great. Shows take more work than that is the truth of it.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. And that’s, that’s one of the reasons why I love working with your company because your company does a lot of that guest research really preps the excellent questions. And, you know, so I, I’ve got to do my own research and I asked you before this, I was like, well, did you cheat? Did you look at the research notes? And we were talking about having this, you know, genuine kind of live conversation, but I found, you know, even at a previous. Episode where I talked to Jordan harbinger. He was like, one of the best things that I do is a tremendous amount of research in the front end, even reads the book typically of an author. And, um, it leads to a better type of conversation. Cause you can really speak to them in a more authentic. In an authentic way.

Harry Morton

Also a way that specifically applies as to your audience because everyone’s audience is different. And so you’re not just kind of asking generic stuff, you’re asking stuff. That’s really interesting to them. Um, also you’re offering questions that haven’t been asked before, because you can check out other podcasts they’ve been on and things like that. And rather than going through the same kind of thing. So, you know, how did you get into X, Y, and Z? You can actually, you know, really try and ask any questions that haven’t been sort of talked about.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, absolutely. And just briefly just, you know, rankings is all about SEO, just so I just want to talk about a couple, you know, what are, what are some of the SEO benefits of a podcast and, and how can you repurpose your content to improve your SEO?

Harry Morton

Yeah, I mean, that’s it, I think with podcasts. You’ll you’re getting really rich content here. You know, you’re having a conversation with subject matter experts who can really kind of, um, you know, offer a really high level of, of value. And, and for that to only exist in audio form is, is kind of a waste of that, I think is a perfect kind of piece of content to, to repurpose into other formats. And of course that lends itself to writing articles, blog, posts, even transcripts. I mean, I think, I mean, you tell me you’re the podcasting expert or sorry, the SEO expert. Um, but you know, transcript. Now that Google can start to crawl audio, you know, the value of transcripts. I don’t know. I find that really interesting that debate. Um, but nevertheless, I think having a written version of your, your audio content is, is just a complete no-brainer. Um, so, so yeah, I think that there’s a lot of kind of SEO value in podcasts. As I, as I’ve sort of said, Google, a crawling audio, I think as that continues to become more of a thing and Google is serving audio results as part of that, you know, in the SERPs, I think that will start to become a really interesting space. So, um, Yeah.

Chris Dreyer

And you know, one of the things I’ve noticed is if you’re a guest on like a webinar or a YouTube show, a lot of times they don’t do a transcript, but almost all podcasts do a transcript. And they’ll almost always link back to the guest. Yes. So it’s a great way to obtain backlinks is get on somebody’s show and, and just, you know, have a good conversation. The other thing that I noticed too, You know, the transcripts themselves, like maybe they don’t rank the best for SEO for those really high, uh, you know, high intent phrases, but it gives the guests something to link back to because they typically don’t share the apple link, the link back to the transcript. Right. And, you know, we had Seth Godin on, uh, several episodes ago and I was shocked. I jumped into my ARS and I was like, oh, we got a link from Seth. And, and that’s what he did. He linked back to the training.

Harry Morton

Incredible. I mean that, yeah, that’s huge value.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. And, uh, you know, We obviously come, you know, uh, at marketing from a legal perspective and we found a lot of success in this podcast, you know, why do you think podcasts works so well for the legal industry specifically?

Harry Morton

Yeah. Well, I mentioned, uh, podcasting as a trust thing, right? Like, cause we, we, we really get to know the, the host of a show over time. Um, I think trust is hugely valuable in the legal space, right? Like, especially with MPI and, uh, you know, all forms of law, I’m sure. But you know, people really want to feel like they can trust their attorney. And I think. Uh, having a platform that, that displays both your, your authority on the subject, that you’re an expert in, um, displays your. You know your capacity to, to, to, to know what you’re talking about. So not just authority, but sort of, you know, um, your ability, your, your skill, um, but it also allows you to build trust over time, which I think is really valuable. The other thing, actually specifically that all firms that I think we’ve seen some really great success with is that, um, Uh, the podcast can be a great way to, to feature as guests or to have as your audience, ideal referral partners. Um, a lot of firms have found that just by starting new relationships with potential referral partners, um, just by literally asking them to be on the shows that guest, uh, has been. Uh, really powerful for them.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. I love that aspect because you know, the legal environments really fractured by geography or practice area and, and it gives a, it’s a way to kind of get your foot in the door to these other states, other great trial attorneys and other locations just have on the podcast, build a relationship. Definitely. Yeah. So, so let’s talk, let’s talk a little bit about Lower Street. I really, uh, I, I want to talk about what you guys do and, and I just have to share from my perspective, it was just a way to elevate and improve our podcasts. I love the voiceovers, the research you guys do, but it’s kind of given me, uh, our audience who may not have heard about Lower Street, you know, what you guys do and, and, um, how you help individuals with their projects.

Harry Morton

Yeah, so, well, I mean, thank you for asking, um, we, uh, w w really, we’re just, we’re podcasting as it’s all we do, so we can help really with any aspect of, of, of show creation, whether that be from, you know, uh, developing a concept for a new show, as I mentioned, so much of the focus is on, you know, what are we trying to achieve with the show as a business, rather than let’s just make a thing. Um, it’s, let’s, let’s try and make sure that this podcast delivers on stuff. So really kind of formulating strategy around a show through the production process. And as you mentioned, um, you know, we’re really interested in doing, um, great shows, not good shows. And so that involves a lot of backend work. So our producers will research. Prep sheets for our hosts, so that they can go into those interviews, you know, fully prepared and researched. Um, we can help with kind of scripting and all that kind of good stuff. Um, so really trying to make the best shows possible. Uh, and then we can help on the backend in terms of distribution and promotion and kind of growing that audience after the fact. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s, that’s what we’re all about. And, and we work exclusively with brands. So we, don’t kind of, uh, uh, we, we work much less with, with folks that are using the podcast to, to monetize. We’re really interested in working with businesses and how they can leverage it for their kind of their marketing.

Chris Dreyer

Plenty of people have already drank the podcast Kool-Aid but with more players entering the space, you’ve got to make your show really stand out. So I asked Harry, what does it take to take your podcast to the next level?

Harry Morton

Yeah. So, I mean, you touched on one thing there, you, you sort of talked about, um, narration and, and we’ve kind of spoken briefly about the fact that some folks will just kind of sit down in front of a mic, record, a conversation for an hour, you know, maybe add out a couple of ums and ERs and, and call it good. Put it out. Um, I’m not saying there’s no value to that content. That can be absolutely great. And indeed, I listen to lots of those shows, but I think where we really can start to set shows apart is, is doing the hard work for the listener. And what that looks like is maybe not showing, you know, playing the entire episode unabridged with a couple of, you know, short edits. It’s actually saying which, where are the core kind of bits. Vital information here. Let’s reduce it to just those and then link that together with narration so that we can fill any gaps for the listener. So for example, if I waffle on with a boring story about my childhood, uh, you know, instead of forcing the listener to listen to 15 minutes of me ramble on about my grandmother, you could instead say in five seconds of narration script, you know, Harry grew up in the Southwest of England and he chose to go down this path and so on. And so we’re. Yeah, we’re doing that hard work for the listener and making sure that they’re getting, you know, an incredibly punchy high value, let’s say 30 minute episode, rather than a kind of, you know, more meandering hour long episode, which will contain the same value, but like you’re much, much less likely to get as many people listen to it as you would on, on the kind of more condensed version. So, yeah, I hope that answers the question.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I’ve got another question that, that I’ve just always thought about is the, the release cadence. Yep. Yeah. The weekly show, the daily show the twice a week, you know, I guess. You can succeed in a variety of different manners, but typically where do you see the most success as it release on a Monday? Is it released on a Friday?

Harry Morton

So yeah, we’re really talking kind of, uh, kind of hacking on that front. We’ve seen the data shows that the biggest download days for podcasts are Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So we typically recommend that that folks release their episodes on those days. Tuesday’s our favorite day, because then you’re at the you’re at the beginning of that kind of wave. Yeah. I think we’re splitting hairs though, there though, you know, if you’ve already released on a Monday, that’s not a reason to change it. I think the biggest thing is consistency. You talked about, um, kind of consistency before I think, and, you know, putting the work in overtime, working for those 70 episodes that you’ve done, that’s when the dividends really start to pay off. And it’s, you know, setting that expectation with your listener. You know, the rankings podcast is going to be here every week. Um, you know, when to expect it. Uh, and, and that’s, that’s a really important thing. So. Some clients say to us, we want to release a show every month. Um, because we don’t think we can manage any more than that. I recommend that the month is too infrequent because people, folks just forget. The show exists basically in between episodes. You want to really create that habit in our listeners. Uh, but we see every two weeks and every week being, you know, equally effective, um, The final thing I’ll say rather than waffling on for too long, is that if you are, uh, if you feel like every two weeks is too much, you don’t feel like you could pull it off what we recommend doing instead of saying, okay, cool. Well, let’s take those 12 episodes. You would have done over this calendar year on a monthly basis and put that out as a season. And so release those as weekly episodes for season. And then just do that for a quarter and then take six months, nine months off, whatever works for you, because you will get much, much more feedback, much more engagement, much more value from that. If you do it with. You know, on that weekly cadence and then just take a break. Um, so that would be my kind of advice on that one.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, I think that’s super smart. And I, you know, we, I originally tried to do two a week and what I found just from a personal level is it’s really hard to promote too. Right. I really want to give the guests the full attention and really appreciate them for coming on the show. And if I do like a Tuesday, Thursday, no, it just seems like one of them is distracting.

Harry Morton

Right. And, and also you’re missing out on a bit of opportunity for that. You know, we talked about repurposing the content, you know, if you’ve only got two days to kind of do your social stuff and your blog posts, and you’re not really giving it the full do you use, I think, you know, multiple times a week works for shows that are maybe shorter form. So let’s say you had a 15 minute show that might not even be an interview show. It’s just kind of, you know, you’re making shorter form content then multiple times a week works really well. But like you say, if you’ve got a guest and you really want to sort of. You know, respect the value that they’re offering the audience, you need to give it a decent amount of our time. So I agree with you.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So a couple, a couple of final questions here, Harry. So, you know, w where do you see the audio industry going in the next couple of years?

Harry Morton

Uh, well, I think, um, it’s a really exciting time. Um, there is a lot of, a lot of change and a lot of investment in the space. So Spotify have been spending, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars on a bunch of acquisitions around the podcasting. They’re betting heavily on podcasting’s growth. Apple podcasts have come up with a slate of announcements recently, um, that are making lots of changes. Uh, and apple has been the sort of leader in the podcasting space, um, to this point. And so they’re kind of, you know, restating their claim and, and, and kind of helping to move the medium forward. Uh, and then lots of other players are entering also. So I think there’s a lot of activity here and, and all of that kind of investment. And, you know, the advertising revenue for the industry is set to hit 2 billion for 2023, uh, sorry 2022 , they’re expecting, um, 2 billion in advertising revenue in the space. So it’s, it’s becoming a really legitimate industry. And I think that, that means that, um, that is that’s great for us that are there in the podcasting industry. That’s great for us as businesses that are leveraging podcasts. Uh, but what it also means is that more people talking about it, more awareness of it means that the listenership is going up as well. So it’s, it’s growing the pie. So. You know, if you’re reticent to get the podcast and you think all shows have been done well, the good news is actually, firstly, that’s not true. And secondly, you know, listenership is growing all the time. And so I think it’s a, it’s a really exciting time to be in podcasts.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And when I think of the competition versus other mediums, other channels and what you have to do to stand out and compared to podcasting, I still think we’re in those early adoption type days.

Harry Morton

Completely agree. Yeah. Um, yeah, couldn’t agree more. I think if you start a YouTube channel, you’ve got a really hard battle to, to kind of fight the crowd there. Whereas in podcasting, there’s still a lot of open space.

Chris Dreyer

Absolutely. You know? So, so you listened to a lot of podcasts. You’re, you’re involved in a lot of them, you know, what, what are some of the podcasts our guests, uh, mostly personal injury attorneys should be listening to?

Harry Morton

well, uh, yeah. Um, one, one that I would, I must, uh, must give you, you had Seth Godin on the show a while ago. I’m a big fan of Seth and everything he puts out is awesome. So “Akimbo” AKI MBO is one that I listened to all the time and highly recommend, uh, There are a bunch of business podcasts I could, I could talk about, but maybe not interesting to everybody. So I think I want to give some non-business recommendations so that folks could just listen to a really great piece of, um, you know, podcasting art, uh, that maybe from, from across the pond as well. So yeah. You know, and I should, I should, I should be clear. This is one question I prepared for. Cause I thought I’d probably get asked it. Uh, so West Cork is a, is a, a podcast about an Irish murder case from the nineties. Um, absolutely. Awesome. Awesome show. Um, really gripping if you’re into your true, true, true crime stuff. And another one is The Missing Crypto Queen, which was a UK product. Um, all about, uh, this really shady character, um, who, who invented a cryptocurrency and, uh, I don’t want to give any, any spoilers. It’s an amazing story. If you’ve got, uh, got some time, um, while you’re driving or doing the dishes, I would recommend listening to that. Um, so yeah, uh, but the, the business side, Seth Godin, he’s awesome.

Chris Dreyer

Thanks for those recommendations and final question here, you know, what’s next for Lower Street?

Harry Morton

Uh, more, more growth basically. Um, you know, it talks about the growth in the podcasting industry. We’ve been incredibly lucky to be in a, in a good place at a good time. And so we doubled in size through 2020. And so, you know, really I’m just focused on scaling the team right now. We were onboarding to two folks. Two new producers are joining the team as we speak. Um, and we’ve got two more coming. So really it’s just about. Growing the teams is to serve, uh, our clients and just produce better and method shows. That’s really all we’re interested in. It’s good. It’s just honing the craft in and being the best production company out there.

Chris Dreyer

I’ve obviously bought into what Harry is doing. There’s so much value to be had in a well-made podcast. You create content, establish trust, generate backlinks, establish relationships. And like Harry said, if you don’t have one yet the best time to start is now. I’d like to thank Harry Morton from Lower Street for sharing a story with us. And I hope you gained some valuable insights from the conversation you’ve been listening to the personal injury marketing mastermind. I’m Chris Dreyer. If you like this episode, leave us a review. We’d love to hear from our listeners. I’ll catch you on next. Week’s PIMM with another incredible guest and all the strategies you need to master personal injury marketing.