Gina Zapanta:

Our hearts are in it. This is our blood, sweat and tears. We eat what we kill. We’re sacrificing our time to do this from our children time. That’s relatable. You cannot fake authenticity.

Chris Dreyer:

Get out of your comfort zone. Bet on yourself first. Put yourself out there.

Gina Zapanta:

Get out of your way, turn off the fear and fucking go. What are you waiting for?

Chris Dreyer:

Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I’m your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the preeminent personal injury marketing agency. Before we get started, if you like what you hear, head on over to Apple or Spotify and pound that five star review button. And if you don’t like what you hear, tell me about it in a one star review. I’ve got a big hug for all my haters too. Each week we talk to the best in the legal industry. Ready to dominate your market? Let’s go. To describe Gina Zapanta as driven is an understatement. She executes on her vision unapologetically and helps others do the same. The co-founder of ZA Lawyers, CEO of AlderLaw and host of the Empower Hour podcast, has defined success on her own terms. Gina plays up her strengths and gets out of her own way. Today she offers up a masterclass on positioning your brand. She explains how to stand out and speaks candidly on how to make authentic connections. It’s easier than you may think. Here’s Gina Zapanta, co-founder of ZA Lawyers.

Gina Zapanta:

After four years at USC, I realized I didn’t want to graduate yet, so I added another major, double major, IR and psychology. And I talked to the dean of the International Relations School and I said, “I don’t know what I want to do.” And he says, “Why don’t you try law school? It seems like a good jumping off point and maybe you can take more time. And I did that really just based off him recommending that and went to Loyola Law School. Actually it was second year of law school in contracts class where I realized I did not want to practice typical law. I have a very much road less travelled journey in law.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s so interesting. I hear so many attorneys will say, “Look, I didn’t learn about the business in law school.” And you just identified that really early on.

Gina Zapanta:

Immediately. Because I realized, well, you don’t know what you don’t know. But I saw enough in law school that yeah, they’re going to teach you the theory of law and the philosophy and the history and blah, blah, but how do you function as a business owner? I’ve always had that, very entrepreneurial, spirited and minded. So I didn’t want to do billable hours. I knew I absolutely knew I didn’t want to work for someone. But I also still didn’t know what I wanted to do because I understood, well, you have to have experience and you have to put in the work and cut your teeth and get all that done.
But just something inside of me was like, there has to be another way. And in law school, as you know, a lot of them are very litigation focused and they want to pump out litigators and they want to create litigators and that’s great. But I don’t want to do that either because my anxiety takes over and I cannot stand in front of people and talk. I do it all the time but it’s just not my favourite. Because the self-criticism and fake fears sometimes take over.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s so interesting. I would never know that. And a lot of my peers give me hell because I don’t go to a lot of conferences because I truly am an introvert. But I like the setting of a podcast because it allows me to have a prepared conversation and get to know people.

Gina Zapanta:

There’s safety, right?

Chris Dreyer:

Yeah. It’s safe. So with that entrepreneurial spirit that you have, you move quickly.

Gina Zapanta:

Out of school, I immediately started looking for jobs outside of the law field. My parents were beside themselves. They’re like, “What are you doing?” And I said, “Mom, dad, I know there’s something else.” And I still couldn’t define it. So they probably thought I was this wayward ungrateful child. I ended up becoming a personal assistant for a private equity billionaire in Beverly Hills and did PA work. I was having the time of my life. After coming out of three years of law school then to this billionaire lifestyle, which wasn’t mine, it was his. But I was his PA. And anyway, long story short, I did that for three years and that lost its luster very quickly. And my dad, again, was a surgeon and I saw that he having built his practice from the ground up, having had no … he built it from nothing.
I saw an opportunity as a lawyer, because I passed the bar while I was a PA, and when he didn’t promote me to in-house counsel with his … to start working there to learn, I was like, I’ve got to go. I saw the opportunity and the niche to create a lien business for my dad and his orthopedic surgery group and offer concierge medical lien services to lawyers. Because I was a lawyer, I had a Bar Card, I could go to lawyer events as a lawyer, but really as a vendor. And I intentionally deactivated my license, because working med-legal, I never wanted anyone to think I’m holding myself out to be a lawyer and I’m with the doctors. So strategically, I deactivated my license and founded and ran that business for 10 years. And through that, I didn’t know what PI was because as you know in law school, they don’t teach you what PI … I had to Google what was a personal injury lien.
I mean, the practicality of teaching someone how to make money and how to be successful, it’s not there and it’s a big disservice. And my husband and I actually are on this huge campaign, going to law schools and saying, “You don’t need to hear about the law from us. Let us tell you the real world things you need to know.” Learned all that on the medical side and it got wonderful exposure. Well, good, bad and ugly exposure to the PI world. Being a vendor, representing the doctors, advocating for the doctors and patient rights. But these patients were clients of personal injury lawyers. And so I saw from the treatment side and how really scrupulous ethical lawyers, who are excellent at their trade, handled a case. And then how you have these mill billboard lawyers taking advantage of people, hardworking people, usually living paycheck to paycheck, who were injured in these PI accidents. And that lit a fire for me. And long story short, I go through a divorce. While I am doing that, I meet my now husband, Mike Alder, of AlderLaw. And he has this incredible reputation as a litigator.
I had heard about him in through the years because I wanted my doctors to do surgery on their cases. We had surgery. It all made sense to me then. But when Mike and I connected, that’s when ZA Lawyers, the idea for ZA Lawyers, was born. Because he and I were both very fed up with the direction the industry was going as far as mill lawyers, mill law firms, the billboard marketing firms holding themselves out to be lawyers. And then seeing the predatory practices in these retainer agreements, which I’m sure you’ve heard of, that these firms are using currently. And that gave us the idea, how can we offer more services to the community, the people, the clients, ZA, Zapanta, Alder, ZA Lawyers was born and we made that specific for work injuries. And AlderLaw has employment, personal injury, toxic tort. When you have employment and work injuries, there’s usually an immigration component as well. We decided to add that as well to create a very wide net to assist people in need. And that is the genesis of ZA Lawyers. And it was launched the month of the shutdown.

Chris Dreyer:

What a time to launch, right? So much fear, so much-

Gina Zapanta:

We figured it was now or never. And we turned COVID into an opportunity. To this day, COVID was the greatest opportunity. We could have let it define us. We could have … shut us all down. What an opportunity to have time that we would never have to create and build and be intentional. And build out a new firm and learn social media as a marketing tool for our firms. COVID was phenomenal in that sense for us. That’s where the firm was born. And now we’re not only in California but also in Louisiana. A lot of movement. And we got married.

Chris Dreyer:

There’s so much. Yeah, that’s amazing. So you got the experience and the knowledge on the inside and you get to apply that. You have these great relationships. Meet Mike and you build something special and together, with both of your experiences, and putting your heads together. When you think about advertising, if you get [inaudible 00:08:29] it’s like you have the pre-lit settlement mills and then you have the litigators that get maximum value that are skilled, that are advocating for their clients. When you’re thinking about that, and you already mentioned social media, how do you get in front of the consumers though? What’s the marketing approach from a Biz Dev side to make sure you’re not distinguishing yourself like a mill with those lack of empathy based statements on the billboards and really hit your core audience?

Gina Zapanta:

I appreciate that you asked that, the way you asked that, especially because that has been our conundrum. Obviously the law side that … we can figure that part out. The hardest part, the biggest learning curve, has been the marketing side of it. And being in a saturated market like Los Angeles where you are going up against these billboard appetizers who have millions to pump into their marketing every month, we had to get creative. Again, we saw social media and the opportunity to learn it in COVID. And Mike actually was the one who first jumped on, he didn’t know what a hashtag was at the start of COVID. He didn’t. He’s like, “What’s a hashtag? Is that the dial number?” I’m like, oh my God, I knew what that was. And so he signed up. We started just, as a student does, he signed up for a $200 a month virtual lesson from a stay-at-home mom in Indiana, who her audience was stay-at-home moms. Like, “Let me show you how to use social media to become a lifestyle influencer.”
He took that class and it’s the same concept. It doesn’t matter what industry. And he learned hashtag. Why hashtags are important, how you do … And I let him do that and then he would download me. And we quickly realized, after we learned it, and we’re still learning it, to separate ourself and to differentiate ourself, we have to be relatable. What those big mills and the million dollar marketing budgets don’t have that we have is that we’re real people. Our hearts are in it. This is our blood, sweat and tears. We eat what we kill. We’re sacrificing our time to do this from our children time. That’s relatable. That cannot be conveyed on a billboard, that cannot be conveyed in a power suit person who doesn’t even look like you, who doesn’t even speak your language. I speak your language and I look like this. That’s the leverage we have. And sure, they can try to copy and I know that … I’ve seen some of it. Go ahead, try to copy, but you cannot fake authenticity.
And we bank on our authenticity. My family’s from east LA, I’m the product of a first generation education. I wasn’t first generation. I grew up very well off. But my dad is and I’m one generation removed from that. And there’s nuances and sensitivities to that. So we identified the leverage we have as being authentic, as being just real people as well. One generation, or one paycheck if you will, removed from the real person. If people can identify what is their leverage. Are they into sports? Do they have a certain hobby? Do they have a thing? My husband loves chickens. If you follow him … And goats. The chicken and goat posts get the most attention and most engagement. But that is such a read on the pulse of society and what the potential clients want. They don’t want, “[foreign language 00:11:30]. I’ll fight for you.” That’s not even us. We don’t even talk like that. But he can feed the chicken and be like, “You know what this chicken reminds me of?” in his southern drawl. “This chicken reminds me of when you get hurt … ”
I mean, he actually doesn’t even do that because that’s cheesy. But you know what I mean? That’s how we address the marketing that’s out there. And again, we bet on ourselves. That’s the best bet you’re going to make. And I would advise people not to put money into these marketing companies. They will wine and dine you and dazzle you with what they can promise you. Bet on yourself first. Bet on yourself first and maximize that and get out of your comfort zone. It feels so weird to talk into a camera. I know it’s so weird. “Who’s going to listen to me? I’m embarrassed. What am I going to say? What if they don’t like what I’m wearing? What if I … ” Get out of your way, turn off the fear, then fucking go. What are you waiting for? “Oh, but everyone’s bigger than me. They have a bigger budget. I don’t even know where to start.” They’re stopping themselves. Versus get a chicken or you love dogs, talk about your dogs. Talk about hockey. I don’t know.

Chris Dreyer:

If you’re the chicken guy or the goat lady, people will remember that. They will remember you. By standing out, you can become relatable. It’s so simple. Show what you like and care about. People think, “Oh, this individual likes animals. I like animals.”

Gina Zapanta:

People love it. It’s approachable. It’s not intimidating. And we have to remember who our client base is. As you know, marketing 101, you need to know who your clients are. Who are you talking to? Do not use legal jargon. They don’t know what a statute of limitations is. I barely know what a statute of limitations is. It’s like, be relatable. You’ve got to think like you’re talking to someone who maybe has a high school education, if that. Little things, it’s the little nuances and the little sensitivities you have to be aware of. And having a bigger market share, absolutely, I agree with you. There’s two theories. Yeah, bigger market share, owning the market. What are they doing for the community? Are they at the food drives every weekend like we are? We’re there. Are they sponsoring local high school scholarships consistently? Not a one hit wonder, come in with all your banners and then you leave and have no more investment in the community. Go ahead. Good luck. Everyone knows your name though.

Chris Dreyer:

I think there’s so much to be said with that. Even the grassroots type of marketing that you’re talking about and actually caring. And it’s the giving without expecting anything in return and then the return comes tenfold.

Gina Zapanta:

A hundred percent.

Chris Dreyer:

And all of that. The other thing too is I talk so much, we talk so much about social media marketing, and I agree, amazing channels. That’s wherever the audience congregates is an opportunity to advertise and connect. I always tell people when they ask me, they’re like, “Hey, do you guys do social media marketing?” I’m like, “No, honestly you should do it in-house.”

Gina Zapanta:

That’s it.

Chris Dreyer:

You should have a video person there that can travel with you in the community that can participate in the grassroots and get the real experience as opposed to me trying to piece something together through Zoom or Riverside. It’s inauthentic.

Gina Zapanta:

Absolutely inauthentic. And you just become another non-approachable lawyer, versus, I mean, you look … Honestly, I love how you’re presenting because you look like a fun guy who is not intimidating and I can actually tell you my problems and I’m not embarrassed and I’m not … People have shame or they’re embarrassed or they’re worried or scared. People will come talk to you because you look like that. And that’s authentically you.

Chris Dreyer:

Thank you.

Gina Zapanta:

Probably have business pants on underneath that shirt though. I bet you. They’re probably slacks.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s funny. Well, I try to … I think it’s a better conversation when we’re genuine and we get to the real issues and have this real instead of stuffy conversations.

Gina Zapanta:

Those are the worst. I hate formality. I hate stuffy. Let’s be organic. But then you have to … It goes back to you have to truly care because … and we know these people “I’m going to make all the money. I’m going to billboard and market share and da, da, da, da, da, da, da.” Those people aren’t even thinking on my plane. They are not even on our energy level. They’re going to connect with a certain kind of client, and unfortunately, those clients are going to get screwed. They don’t know any better.
But if you connect with people in the same wavelength with you and you have to be attuned to thinking that way, altruistically, community minded. Not every lead or not every marketing campaign is going to yield something. “What’s the ROI on that? Why are you doing those food drives? You’re not getting any cases.” The karmic bank that we have created, it pay … like you just said, it has paid out a billion-fold and continues to. And business will naturally come. It’s just you have to do it for the right reasons and you don’t force it. It’s not going to work. People see right through that and it backfires, as a matter of fact.

Chris Dreyer:

And I’ll say it’s definitely been working. I mean, you expanded in Louisiana. What was the tipping point that you decided, “Hey, it’s time. We’re going to move to this location?” What was the strategy behind that decision?

Gina Zapanta:

So while we’re growing ZA Lawyers here, because it is still very much in growth mode, we go to Louisiana often. We have a home there. Mike was raised there. He’s barred there. And going back and forth so much, again, being attuned to the community and being very community minded and wanting to see how we can help and support and whatever, I saw there was a very large Latino population there and there’s virtually zero Latino lawyers or marketing. There’s some. But nothing like here. And I said, well, if there’s no advertising there, people are clearly overlooking this population who I know are in need. And I know are taken advantage of and I know get in accidents. But they’re so scared because of their documentation status or just their cultural or societal fear of power and hierarchy. They don’t say anything. They just want to keep their job because they need that job.
They’re raising their children. They don’t want to make a noise. Culturally, it’s generally like that. Knowing all that, I said, “We need to expand here.” It’s a perfect opportunity. We have two lawyers on the ground now. We have an office in New Orleans on Canal Street and it’s daunting to run. I thought it was just going to be easy. I said “We could replicate what we’re doing in Los Angeles or in California and just do it in New Orleans or in Louisiana.” But there’s also a big cultural divide in the south. I look the way I look. And there’s not been anything that’s been so like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe this is happening.” And I also know, and I’m going to say it, because it is what it is, I’m married to a white man from the south. I have leverage. Again, I saw the leverage.
I see the opportunity that I can get in spaces. I can get indoors with what I have, the tools I have. I can get endorsed and get in front of these people however I have to do it to help them. The Know Your Rights campaign. I tell them, “Look, you don’t even have to hire me, but you need to know your rights if you get pulled over and you’re undocumented. Or if you’re documented, do you know what to do if you’re in an accident? Do you know what kind of insurance you have? Do you know how much coverage you truly have?” Nobody talks to us like this. Any of us, in any state. I see that. And so just knowing that we were spending our time there, so much. Time is money, time is energy. Why not make it make sense and do what we’re already doing and expand and scale that way.
And I’m very cautious to not bite off more than we can chew, obviously. Because in our mind it isn’t, “Get as big as we can.” Absolutely not. It is quality over quantity. We have a finite amount of resource and energy and life left in us. Family is equally as important. And I’m a woman and a mom. And I say this, it’s very controversial, but my work is as important as my children. My work is my first child and I am unapologetic about that. And so being cognizant of growing and brand … or scaling and expanding but cognizant of what’s in the gas tank. How much energy do I … What do I have to take … How do I have to take care of myself and my family to sustain that? And so that was the impetus to go to Louisiana. And so we’re growing two firms in both states simultaneously. And this is separate from Mike’s AlderLaw litigation firm.

Chris Dreyer:

Gina is unapologetic in her pursuit of success. She hosts the Empower Hour podcast to help others do the same. She explains how to create a life that you love.

Gina Zapanta:

The question is so deep, it’s easy. It’s not a scientific secret. It’s not something that only the one percent-ers have or the rich have that you don’t have. It’s you. It’s you. It’s us. It’s the self-criticism and the negative self-talk. “I don’t believe in myself. How come she’s so lucky? How come she has … ” There’s no luck. There’s no luck. There’s pulling yourself together and loving yourself first. Going after what you want, not what culture or society wants you to do. Culture and society wants you to fit into a puzzle piece. And if you don’t, something’s wrong with you. If you don’t, you’re going through a midlife crisis. I hate that fucking word. What about a midlife awakening? Because you’re actually looking around and, “What life is this? Why am I even in this profession? Why did I get married? I’ve always wanted to backpack across Europe and I never got to do it because I have kids and I have this … ” Because you’re keeping up with the Joneses for fear of being cast out of the herd.
The whole Empower Hour movement is living unapologetically, going against convention, especially as a woman. And I don’t like saying the word woman because it really doesn’t matter. Because I think if you identify and categorise yourself, you’re giving yourself a glass ceiling. I’m not a woman owned business. I’m a business owner. I’m not a woman lawyer. I’m a lawyer. I’m not a woman of colour, Latina woman … Stop. Those are bullet points. I am lawyer, business owner, mom, wife, and a fucking powerhouse. Everything, all those other categories, are bullet points. But Empower Hours to teach is to teach people to make those definitions just bullet points, not definition. And then the self-love and saying no, saying no to things. Saying no. And again, it speaks to women because we were programmed and conditioned to respond and act a certain way, especially if we have a family. “Oh my God. You don’t say you love your kids?” No, I do, but I love my work too. Sorry, not sorry. Hashtag, sorry not sorry.

Chris Dreyer:

I think the saying no sometimes is the most difficult thing, especially when it comes to family and setting those boundaries. Me and my wife, we have a young … he’s a year and a half. And it’s like, oh, there’s different challenges here.

Gina Zapanta:

Oh yeah, my little guy is in the other room right now. I have 24 hour care. Dun, dun, dun. “What do you mean? Don’t you spend time with your son? Shouldn’t you be to be with your kid?” There’s six kids between Mike and I now. A lot of kids. No, I’m not going to apologise and I’m not going to fit into your definition of what I should be doing because otherwise I will be trapped on a hamster wheel and I will be living very small, the way society wants me to live.

Chris Dreyer:

Well said.

Gina Zapanta:

Not doing that. No.

Chris Dreyer:

Well said. Well said.

Gina Zapanta:

That’s all.

Chris Dreyer:

I’m going to shift over to the philanthropy side because what you’re doing over there is amazing. It’s a common thread throughout your whole career. Where did this spirit come from of giving and tell me about a few of the organisations that you’re passionate about right now?

Gina Zapanta:

It’s in my blood. My ancestors, we were a people that … not upwardly mobile but knew there was something better. There was something more. There always was something more. And I learned it very young from my parents. My mom didn’t graduate high school. My dad and his brother became orthopaedic surgeons, two Latino kids from east LA. My grandpa was a mechanic. And so my parents having been able to succeed from a statistically socioeconomically depressed life, where statistically they should have just been in the community, the number, being the statistic, their parents told them, “Education, education, education, education is the way out.” And then when you unpack that, well, there’s not equal access to education. There’s the disparity in the inner city of quality education. And then don’t even get me into healthcare. Just growing up so aware, and I grew up in Whittier where the girls are prettier, and that’s the saying of the city. I didn’t make that up.
People who know Whittier will laugh because it’s funny. But I grew up, again, like I said, very well off. I went to private school. I was the only person of colour in the private school. That didn’t really bother me because it wasn’t a thing. They didn’t make it a thing. But living in Whittier, just down the street, there were people … generations that just, you’re born, you work nine to five, you retire, you die. And I see it everywhere still. All of us, we see it. That sounds like the ultimate torture. You’re saying you’re a victim or you’re powerless over your life because of the colour of your skin, because of the lack of finance, because of the neighbourhood you’re from, because of whatever categories you’re given, because you were toxic, abusive past, whatever? And just seeing how my parents are like, you must give back and create opportunity for those that don’t have it.
Not everyone has equal access and that’s always been that way. But if you have the opportunity, it is your responsibility to open that door and you create the space. You’re not going to save everyone. That is the big thing I have to keep … Mike and I have to keep reminding ourselves about. Because that gets heavy sometimes. The stuff we see and the stories we hear, it’s just, it’s heavy. We can’t save everyone. But we are planting some seeds and we will help some people. And we have. We’ve seen directly, our involvement, whether it’s through funds, which, oh, fine, you can always make more money, but what about my time? I can’t get my time back. Sitting and spending time and just talking to someone and saying, “Look, let’s talk through this. How can I help you just to be heard?” Oh, it’s just … you create ripple effect and it’s just part of being human and … I don’t know. It’s fundamental

Chris Dreyer:

[inaudible 00:25:20] I think of memories and things that I’ve done throughout my life, it’s these experiences. And these experiences that you’re creating, these amazing memories that you’re … everything that you’ve been involved with is just so powerful and just stand the test of time in how they impact people. So thank you for that and that’s amazing. And-

Gina Zapanta:

It’s my responsibility. It’s really an honour.

Chris Dreyer:

From your execution side, right, this episode’s going to air a couple months from now. And I wanted to just have a fun question. By the time this airs, what will you have hoped to accomplished?

Gina Zapanta:

I’m not going to hope to accomplish. Period. What I will accomplish … Or is that a colon? What I’ll accomplish-

Chris Dreyer:

I don’t know.

Gina Zapanta:

-in a couple months … In a couple months, I will have started writing a book. We’re working on a documentary, that will be probably midpoint by then. I will have another son. We’re pregnant, six months through surrogacy. That’s a whole other conversation, going against convention again, here we go. So I will have another son and I’ll be living my best life like building this empire unapologetically. It’s going to be … I’ll be so much better positioned than I am today. So I’m very excited.

Chris Dreyer:

Thanks so much to Gina Zapanta, co-founder of ZA Lawyers, for her honesty and candid conversation today. You can find her on Instagram at ginazapanta_, that’s at G-I-N-A-Z-A-P-A-N-T-A underscore.

Gina Zapanta:

And my cell phone (323) 559-5548. I am that authentic, I’m giving you my cell phone. You want to know why? Nobody’s going to call me. Nobody will call me, nobody will text me. Mike and I talk to so many people, so many students. We give everyone our cell phone. But that’s the difference between executors and the non-executors who are going to complain and wonder, “How come … How do I market? How do I [inaudible 00:27:11]?” Just fucking do it? Jump and stop being scared.

Chris Dreyer:

Just do it.

Gina Zapanta:

Go.

Chris Dreyer:

Before you give Gina a call, let’s hit the takeaways. It’s time for PIMM Points. PIMM Point number one, be your authentic self. When you share what you truly enjoy, it allows individuals to see you as a person, not just as an attorney. This human approach can make your marketing budget go further. Larger firms looking to capture the most attention from the widest audience have generalized messaging. Now, this isn’t a bad thing, but it does require more repetition and saturation in any given market. This means spending more resources to get that information to stick in individuals’ minds. Gina found success in talking to her specific audience directly.

Gina Zapanta:

What those big mills and the million-dollar marketing budgets don’t have that we have is that we’re real people. Our hearts are in it. That’s relatable. That cannot be conveyed in a power suit person who doesn’t even look like you, who doesn’t even speak your language. I speak your language and I look like this.

Chris Dreyer:

PIMM Point number two, show up consistently. Grassroots marketing isn’t effective if you’re just playing lip service to the community. Once you make the decision to get involved, you have to show up, over and over. So make sure the community you are looking to reach is one that you care about, are connected to and can show up for.

Gina Zapanta:

But if you connect with people in the same wavelength with you and you have to be attuned to thinking that way, altruistically, community minded. Not every lead or not every marketing campaign is going to yield something. “What’s the ROI on that? Why are you doing those food drives? You’re not getting any cases.” The karmic bank that we have created, it has paid out a billion-fold and continues to.

Chris Dreyer:

And PIMM Point number three. Set boundaries. Decide what is important to you and carve out time for that thing. Maybe it’s painting once a week or going to the gym. Maybe the boundaries are around how much time you can spend with family. Whatever you decide, remember that you cannot be in multiple places at once. Show up fully where you are. Like Gina said, you can always make more money, but you can’t make more time. Structure your life in a way that is meaningful and right for you.

Gina Zapanta:

No, I’m not going to apologize and I’m not going to fit into your definition of what I should be doing. Because otherwise I will be trapped on a hamster wheel and I will be living very small the way society wants me to live.

Chris Dreyer:

All right everybody, thanks for hanging out. I’m Chris Dreyer. If you like what you heard today, click that follow button so you never miss an episode. Next week we hear from Chad Dudley on how to get more value from the cases you’ve already got. You’re not going to want to miss that one. Now get out there and dominate. I’m out.