Christina Hagen:

This is what we do. This is what we’re experts in.

Chris Dreyer:

I think when people don’t know what something’s at, they fill it with those worst case scenarios.

Christina Hagen:

It was more so about just really focusing on what was the most convenient for the client, finding ways to do things more efficiently. So we’re really big on technology.

Chris Dreyer:

Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I’m your host, Chris Dreyer, Founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the preeminent personal injury marketing agency. Each week you get insights and wisdom from some of the best in the industry. Before we get started, hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. Ready to dominate your market? Let’s go. There are many reasons to start your own law firm. For some, firm ownership has always been the goal. For Christina Hagen…

Christina Hagen:

We wanted to make a more flexible practice, a more modern law firm, and do things a little bit differently.

Chris Dreyer:

She’s an accomplished personal injury attorney who practiced law for nearly a decade at other firms, and she liked her job. But during COVID, something clicked.

Christina Hagen:

I really started thinking, “I’m investing the majority of my life into this firm and I should be investing more in myself and my long-term goals and how I want to be running a practice in the future.”

Chris Dreyer:

This story might sound familiar. You might have even had some of the same thoughts. Back then, many people were reevaluating what they wanted to do and how they wanted to do it. So in 2022, Christina hung her shingle with Kaitlin Nares. They co-founded Hagen Nares and found early success by going all in on TBI and trucking cases. The insights Christina shares today are practical applications that both seasoned and new attorneys will find valuable. She digs into how she expanded her reach by narrowing her focus and the importance of projecting expertise to win that target client. Once Christina has a signed contract, she delivers a streamlined and transparent customer experience. She explains the text she uses to make sure clients feel connected and informed at all times. Here’s Christina Hagen, owner of Hagen Nares on how she first got into law.

Christina Hagen:

I was at business school at Michigan State. I was a finance major and I just wasn’t loving it. It definitely was not something I was passionate about. And in the business college, one of my professors in, I think it was like a business and law class, she was an expert witness and she described what that looked like, and I thought it just sounded like the coolest thing ever to be the person that everyone’s calling up and their cases to have you come testify, the person who knows the most about that subject matter. And I just started thinking about law school after that class and then decided to go right after I graduated college.

Chris Dreyer:

I want to kind of fast forward, and I know you have a lot of experience right after law school, working with a few firms, but I want to jump right ahead to you started your firm in 2022 with Kaitlin Nares. So how did you guys meet and why did you decide to open a firm together?

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So we actually met working together at a prior law firm, and we both are very passionate about personal injury in particular, we’re both moms. And it really came about during COVID where that helped put a pause on the day-to-day. We were constantly just, I felt going through the motions. At least that’s how I felt working nonstop. And then it wasn’t until COVID where I really took a step back and started thinking, “I’m investing the majority of my life into this firm. I should be investing more in myself and my long-term goals and how I want to be running a practice in the future.” And so speaking with Kaitlin, she shared a lot of the same goals. Also, being a mom, we know that there’s those different time constraints that can get in the way. And so we wanted to make a more flexible practice, a more modern law firm and do things a little bit differently.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s fantastic. And the non-linear workday. So we have a remote company and I totally subscribe to that, and it’s more about the outcome and not clocking in with the time card. I know during COVID like podcast consumption just skyrocketed. Were you listening to people that maybe started to change your mindset to go this direction?

Christina Hagen:

Absolutely. Was constantly listening to your podcasts, watching all the webinars, taking it all in. And I think the piece of advice that stood out the most is, of course, there’s that fear. It’s definitely scary making that jump, deciding to make that jump into leaving a steady income with a law firm that I liked. I just wanted to be doing something different and had different goals in the future and wanted to be more in charge of my own practice. And the best piece of advice was what’s the worst that can happen? It doesn’t work out. Then you go back to working for a firm and that made it a little bit less scary.

Chris Dreyer:

So tell me about your roles. So starting a firm obviously requires the partner to wear a tonne of hats at the beginning, and you’re obviously taking off those hats as you go on more and more along the lines. But how are the two of you splitting the day-to-day activities to where you can provide the most value for the firm?

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So I think our skillsets, my partner and I, our skillsets and also what we enjoy doing the most, compliment each other really well. I love being really ingrained in the cases and the legal work and the legal aspect of the business. Whereas my partner loves the operations side. She is married to someone who’s also an entrepreneur and she loves everything that comes with running the business. And then there’s certain aspects that we both kind of share, which is the marketing and the social media. She really likes the more networking side and bringing in the business. And so it’s worked really well, how we have that split up between us.

Chris Dreyer:

That’s amazing. And I got to tell you, all of the individuals doing the traction, the visionary and the integrator, a lot of them are still looking for that integrator. So they’re super jealous that you kind of have found your compliment there. You had some experiences working for a few other firms. Were there things that you saw that you took from each of those where, “Hey, we like the organizational design of this one and maybe this one was marketing a little better.” How did that experience help guide you to how your firm functions?

Christina Hagen:

There were positive and negative things, I would say, at all the different firms that we have worked for. And so it was more so about just really focusing on what was the most convenient for the client, finding ways to do things more efficiently. So we’re really big on technology. We don’t subscribe to the standard office where the client has to come in and it’s during business hours, because none of that’s convenient for the client. So we have a firm number that you can call or text. We have direct messaging that we use on all our social media sites. We have a client portal for when they sign up with our firm. It’s a way for them to be constantly accessing all the updates in their case.

So they’re not feeling out of the loop ever. They can just log into their portal, see investigation items that have been gathered, records that we’re working on, getting all that stuff. So they’re feeling like they’re a big part of the case and it’s not like they’re feeling like they’re inconveniencing us by asking for updates or anything. Because we want them to make sure that they know that we’re on top of everything and they know exactly where their case is at any given time.

Chris Dreyer:

I think when people don’t know what something’s at, they fill it with those worst case scenarios.

Christina Hagen:

Exactly.

Chris Dreyer:

So are you using a project management tool to help them with the portal? From the digital side, there’s like Trello and Basecamp and you can give access to our clients through those mediums. Is it part of your project management?

Christina Hagen:

It’s part of our case management system that we use. So we’re using NEOs right now. We’re also going to be moving to a different website host and that’s going to also have access. It will integrate with NEOs as far as the client portal goes. So it’ll make it even more convenient in that respect. But it’s worked really well so far.

Chris Dreyer:

You not only do PI, but you also won’t really narrow. So you’re focusing on trucking and TBI, with the competitive landscape that you see like in Denver, how are you approaching this from a marketing perspective or a positioning perspective?

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So I think a lot of this came about with us working with a business coach, and that has been hugely helpful in getting our firm off the ground. So we started working with a coach initially, but it goes back to when you start your own firm, of course there’s that fear of getting clients in the door. And so we were casting a really wide net at the outset, just looking to get clients in and we were realizing that a lot of the cases we were working on was not something that we were extremely passionate about. It was a personal injury case, but where we enjoyed working the most is in that trucking space. And then working with clients who have suffered traumatic brain injuries. And so our coach was like, “Well, how are people supposed to know that that’s what you specialize in if you’re not advertising it?”

And of course our fear was, “Well, if we only say we’re only taking trucking or only taking brain injury cases, that’s going to make everyone else with a dog bite or a less severe car crash case go somewhere else.” But that’s not what happens. Instead, what happens is you start projecting out there and putting out there that this is what we love working on. This is what we do, this is what we’re experts in. And so that’s how people find you. So it works the opposite of what we initially thought because if you don’t put out there that you are the experts and you specialize in this, then it’s kind of silly to expect people who’ve been in a truck crash or who’ve suffered a brain injury to find you.

Chris Dreyer:

Creating content is so broad. There’s, you create content on Google and social and on just content itself is just one of those super generic words. But tell me about the guidebooks you’ve created and how those work from a legion perspective.

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So we have a few guidebooks on our website that we provide for free. You can just download them by going to our website, but we were getting asked a lot of the same questions in the cases that we handle in trucking or in car crash or in dog bike cases, we were thinking, “Oh, hey, wouldn’t it be a great idea if we could refer clients here or potential clients who are Googling all this stuff anyways, had a more concise way to access all the answers to all the questions that someone typically has when they’re involved in these types of incidents.” And so we put those on our website and we have had a lot of people find us that way, just searching. We try to refer people to that on our social media. We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback and it’s been helpful and definitely puts out there that we’re more authoritative on these types of cases and that we deal with a lot of these questions all the time.

Chris Dreyer:

You chose your niche. How does that dictate the channels and the mediums that you choose to advertise on? I imagine that some are maybe too narrow, maybe how do you approach that from your point of view? And I think you mentioned social media previously too.

Christina Hagen:

Yeah, social media, we just make sure that our branding and marketing is very consistent, constantly putting out updates in truck accident law or regulations to be familiar with tips for deposing truck drivers or corporate reps of trucking companies. And we do a lot of our marketing geared towards other attorneys, not just people who may be involved in a truck accident because trucking cases are extremely complex. And we do get a lot of calls from attorneys who kind of dabble in trucking and they’re looking for someone to take on the case once it doesn’t settle and they realize they need to file it or they’re looking for local counsel here in Colorado. And so to your point, it’s been a lot of just what messaging we’re putting out on social media, gearing a lot of it towards other attorneys, and then just making sure that we’re constantly staying involved in going to the national organization seminars and getting to know other truck accident attorneys in other states.

Chris Dreyer:

Yeah, it seems like it’s so different when you’re trying to maximize value and you have a niche. It’s like your audience is set of just directly B2C, and a lot of times it gravitates more to B2B. Because now you have basically their commission-only outside sales reps. I mean, that’s what a referral is. So when you’re trying to maximize case value and really nail a TBI case, are there certain components of technology that help facilitate this? Or are there items that other attorneys may over look that helps with the value? So speak to me, I guess specifically about a TBI case.

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So when it comes to a TBI case, honestly, the most impactful thing is just really getting to know the client right away and getting to know the people around them in their life, because a lot of it is who they were before and then comparing that to who they are after. Because most people who have suffered a traumatic brain injury, they’re a completely different person and it’s not necessarily something that they’re going to realize, but everyone in their life is going to pick up on that immediately. They’re going to notice the small things that they do differently in their day-to-day. They’re going to notice the things that they’re forgetting or have trouble elaborating when they’re speaking to things.

But as far as technology wise, there are some tests that have been helpful in proving a traumatic brain injury. We find that more providers, so more neurologists and concussion specialists are recommending DTI imaging. Before that didn’t used to be something that we were seeing so much as a diagnostic tool. It was like a good to have, kind of nice scan because it does a good job of picturing or depicting the traumatic brain injury itself. And being an kind of an invisible injury, it’s nice to have those colorized scans that show where in the brain there’s that disconnect and what’s going on inside the person’s body. So that has definitely been helpful that more treaters are recommending that, and then you have better chance of overcoming any of the [inaudible 00:13:54] challenges and stuff like that.

Chris Dreyer:

Many PI attorneys are familiar with auto cases, but you can’t treat a trucking case like a car case. Christina explains the basics.

Christina Hagen:

There’s a lot that needs to be done right at the outset of a case. We’re hiring experts immediately. We’re doing data downloads, we’re doing expert reconstructions if necessary, and I can’t stress enough the importance of getting hands-on training and experience. So I’m a big member of the ATAA, so Academy of Truck Accident Attorneys, and there’s a women’s group that recently started what’s called the Mother Truckers. And every year we have an annual convention where we actually go and get together and drive tractor trailers. The first time that I did that was last August, we went out to a trucking course in Montana, and it was the best experience ever because you get to see what’s going on inside the cab.

You get to see everything that a professional truck driver has to focus on. You realize there’s absolutely no room to be distracted in a huge vehicle like this, and we got to work one-on-one with different experts, to learn how to secure loads properly, when and how you’re supposed to place emergency triangles. So just a lot of that stuff. It’s really great to have that hands-on experience to fully understand everything you need to be looking for in a case like this.

Chris Dreyer:

I got to imagine too, with just the visuals, the feeling, the force and how fast and they slow down versus seeing that on a technology or a graph, you actually experiencing that. It makes me think of that Ice Road Trucker show.

Christina Hagen:

Sure. So speaking of the Ice Road Truckers, this year’s convention is actually in Alaska. I’m not able to make it, but I’m sure there’s going to be lots of great training and great stories that come out of that trucking course this year. But it’s just a way to encourage collaboration. A lot of us are working towards becoming board certified in truck accident law, and so it’s a way to have others that you can go to who may need a second chair in a trial, you can pro hac into that case and get more experience that way. It’s just really a way to encourage collaboration and working through certain issues together, sharing of information as it relates to specific experts that we see all the time, and how to just make the best case possible for each of our clients who usually have been in extremely severe or catastrophic injuries.

Chris Dreyer:

You’re a part of another organization, you’re part of the Women-Owned Law Firms or the acronym W.O.L.F. So tell me about that. Tell me about how that association benefits you and your partner.

Christina Hagen:

Yeah, W.O.L.F. has been great. It’s a local Colorado organization, and it’s exactly that. So it’s all women-owned, women law firm owners, and most of them are in other practice areas. So it’s been really nice getting to know attorneys who do family law or there’s trademark lawyers. That’s been really helpful to build our referral network, getting to know attorneys in other practice areas because we get questions all the time. “Can you refer a transaction attorney? Or I’m starting my business, who should I go to for help?” So it’s nice to have those trusted referral sources here in Colorado.

Chris Dreyer:

What are some of the good conventions, the good events that are put on just top of mind that you think of where you go to congregate with other truck accident attorneys?

Christina Hagen:

So the ATAA has an amazing symposium that they put on once a year. This year it’s going to be in October in Atlanta. AAJ also has wonderful conventions that they put on at least twice a year. TBI Med Legal is a really great one, of course, mostly centered around traumatic brain injury and how to handle those types of cases, but trucking cases involve traumatic brain injuries oftentimes. And so there was a lot of great information, a lot of really great speakers out of that convention related to trucking as well.

Chris Dreyer:

What’s next for your firm and where can people go to connect with you?

Christina Hagen:

Our firm, we’re just constantly growing. We’re currently hiring additional support staff, and if people want to find out more about our firm, they can go to our website. It’s hntriallaw.com. We’ll also be putting out that trucking litigation guidebook pretty soon, so look for that. And if you need to get ahold of me, you can find us on social media at Hagen Nares, or you can send me an email, christina@hntriallaw.com.

Chris Dreyer:

Thanks so much to Christina for sharing her wisdom today. Let’s hit the takeaways, time for the pinpoints. Here we go. Understand who the real competition is. It’s not just other firms, you’re competing with, the expectations and service standards set by every leading company. How would you feel if you couldn’t track your Amazon packages or your DoorDash order? Your client has to be conditioned just like you and me, to expect transparency at all times. Christina understands this and has created a client portal, deliver a better customer experience.

Christina Hagen:

They can just log into their portal, see investigation items that have been gathered, records that we’re working on getting, all that stuff. So they’re feeling like they’re a big part of the case and it’s not like they’re feeling they’re inconveniencing us by asking for updates or anything because we want them to make sure that they know that we’re on top of everything and they know exactly where their case is at any given time.

Chris Dreyer:

Next up, pinpoint number two. Narrow your focus to expand your reach. If your practice is focused on one area of law, let people know, don’t be a jack of all trades, master of none. Be a master of one.

Christina Hagen:

This is what we do, this is what we’re experts in. And so that’s how people find you.

Chris Dreyer:

Social media is great, but if you want to establish authority, think bigger. Christina and her partner created long-form content that answers questions before they’re asked. They developed guidebooks for both clients and firm owners that explain the cases that they work on most often. I love this because they’re answering questions that continue to come up so they’re providing a ton of value and establishing themselves as authorities in the trucking space.

Christina Hagen:

We have a few guidebooks on our website that we provide for free, and we have had a lot of people find us that way. We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback and that it’s been helpful and definitely puts out there that we’re more authoritative on these types of cases and that we deal with a lot of these questions all the time.

Chris Dreyer:

For more information about Christina, check out the show notes. While you’re there, please hit that follow button so you never miss an episode of Personal Injury Mastermind with me, Chris Dreyer, Founder and CEO of Rankings.io. All right, right everybody, thanks for hanging out. See you next time. I’m out.